I think you can get this effect just by adjusting the decay or similar parameter on your delay.

Jeff Evans


Firstly using a compressor to be sidechained and controlling the output of a delay is a very usable technique and it can be done. Gating is definitely not the correct effect to use in this situation.

 

FYI, pumping sidechained vocals?  lol..   here's a sound on sound article that verifies my assessment.   gate is correct:  http://www.soundonsound.c...es/advancedreverb2.asp

Scroll down to where they describe the technique.. 

Cheers




Edit =  Linear Phase is now batting .385!!  FTW

Lots of ways to skin the cat. This thread could have been over after post #2 assuming everything was routed correctly. Personally I'd prolly just automate the spots that annoyed me, but lets try and think of 928427 other ways :P

Linear Phase

Jeff Evans


Firstly using a compressor to be sidechained and controlling the output of a delay is a very usable technique and it can be done. Gating is definitely not the correct effect to use in this situation.

FYI, pumping sidechained vocals?  lol..   here's a sound on sound article that verifies my assessment.   gate is correct:  http://www.soundonsound.c...es/advancedreverb2.asp

Scroll down to where they describe the technique.. 

Cheers




Edit =  Linear Phase is now batting .385!!  FTW

I don't think you are understanding my original question if you think Gate is correct. I want lower the volume of the wet delay signal while the main vocals are playing, similar to lower the volume of the bass when the kick is playing. Or lower the volume of background music while a radio DJ is talking. So basically, the wet delay signal itself (not with the dry vocal) is the thing that is being "ducked" or "pumped." A gate opens/closes and either lets sound in or out. That is not what I'm trying to achieve. Hope this clears things up

Except that the type of gate that Linear Phase is referring to in the Sound on Sound article is actually a good one and OK. Normally a gate is either open or closed and that is what I meant too by that type of gate being not suitable. 

But some gates also allow some of the signal through even when they are closed. ie they have a range. So they have a setting which is not completely silent but the signal can be set at a lower level and hence still get through. But also you must be able to reverse the situation ie when the vocal line is present you want the gate to go into a low level mode and when the vocals are not present the gate lets all the signal through. It will require a slightly tricky gate that has these features. (normally it is the other way around ie when vocal signal is present the gate lets all the signal through but that is not what you want) The Sonitus gate can do all these things. Just set the range to some value rather than - Inf and use ducking mode rather than normal mode.

The compressor however will do all of that naturally and you already have them too.

And if you have it the pro channel gate/expander has exactly this ... A range button.

vaultwit

I don't think you are understanding my original question if you think Gate is correct. I want lower the volume of the wet delay signal while the main vocals are playing, similar to lower the volume of the bass when the kick is playing.

    If we can open our minds a little, to the fact that there might be other very practiced producers here, we might learn something. There are reasons, "specifically as they pertain to vocals," as to why I would not do this with a sidechain compressor. And FYI Daft Punk used Gates to duck their bass. 

1. If you do this with a gate you do not need to clone a vocal track.
2. If you do this with a gate you can avoid all kinds of pumping reverb issues.

I know you are talking about, "delay," but its a spacial time fx just like reverb

vaultwit
Or lower the volume of background music while a radio DJ is talking. So basically, the wet delay signal itself (not with the dry vocal) is the thing that is being "ducked" or "pumped." A gate opens/closes and either lets sound in or out. That is not what I'm trying to achieve. Hope this clears things up

Where on earth did you get that from? Wikipedia? Are we talking about mixing music and producing in Sonar, or are we talking about Broadcasting on an FM Radio Station? When you are mixing music in Sonar, you do not need another audio source, "coming through the channel," to duck the channel. When you are broadcasting in a Radio station you have two audio sources..  T

  Yes you can duck with sidechain compressors. But in terms of your specific question, "I want my delay louder as the vocals drop," I believe the correct answer is gate. In this situation, that is the answer.  

A gate can do it for sure but so can also a compressor. You do not need to clone any vocal track. It is as simple as setting up the delay as a side chain effect on a separate buss and inserting the compressor after the delay and side chaining the compressor from the vocal track.

Pumping effects can be avoided, it is simply a matter of setting up the compressor correctly which is something some may find difficult to do. It is a bit unusual in the way you have to think of what the compressor is doing compared to what a compressor does normally. Compressors can be hard enough to get right but in a ducking situation they can be a little illusive or harder. You are not hearing it directly but rather it is controlling some other aspect to the vocal sound. And this compressor of course is separate to the actual vocal compressor that you also my be using.

There are several ways to do it. This effect is definitely not restricted to one method only. Both the gate and ducking compressor are more automatic type of effects that you can set and leave but automating either the send to the delay or the delay return will give a finer degree of control. It is just that you have to put more time into it.

The concept of the music ducking under a DJ's voice is also very relevant and extremely useful. As a teacher of sound engineering we get students to practice the music ducking under voice first before we let them loose on other side chaining activities. It is good because the two things (voice and music) are so different and it is easier to hear how the music ducks away, how far down it ducks and how it comes back. With practice it is possible to get it sounding very smooth and effective. 

Has anyone mentioned any of the so-called "self-ducking delays" that are available?

Here's a free one.

Side chain compression is wrong.  If vocal is track 1, delay is on bus C... And you route the track one to the input of the side chain you will get no audio..  You need another routed to the bus itself


 I'm at work... I'll argue bout this more in six hours