Part of audio routed that is... I'm typing on my iPhone, I'll get back to this later

Linear Phase


Side chain compression is wrong.  If vocal is track 1, delay is on bus C... And you route the track one to the input of the side chain you will get no audio..  You need another routed to the bus itself


I'm at work... I'll argue bout this more in six hours

A compressor being controlled by a side chain from the vocal track will most definitely do the job. The post I made at #2 is still the way to go if you want to do this on the fly. Note the side chain is from a send not the track output.
 
I personally would still use an envelope, but if the ducking method is used setting up the release will be the hardest thing to get right as you'll want the delay back up to volume almost as soon and possibly a shade before the dry vocal has stopped.

Ok.. But I can admit I'm wrong.. Just put an x1 project file on box.net for me plz..

Gotta go

The Sonitus Gate has a "Duck" mode that could work well for this. You just place it after the delay on a delay bus and send the vocal to the sidechain input of the Gate. This way the delay volume is lowered every time the volume of the singer is louder than the threshold. This is similar to using a compressor in side-chain mode. I would experiment with both to find the right result.

However, I often find the Sonitus Gate is less transparent than compression, so I tend to use it when I want the change in volume to be accentuate the rhythm of the track, and use side-chained compression otherwise.

Peace,

Tunes

tunekicker


  I would experiment with both to find the right result.  

 

Tunekicker I am not singling you out here..  I said, "after work, I would come back and make a last response to the thread.


Cool?


This is what I suggest everybody does.    

Put a vocal on Audio Track 1.  Put a delay on Bus C.  Put any sidechaine comp, "on bus c," after the delay..  Now route Audio Track 1 to the input of the comp.  What do you hear?   No sound..



That's why I have been saying, "gate is the way to go."   


Ok everybody, lets move on now..  

Cheers!!    

I get a very strong feeling that LinearPhase does not even know the basic sidechain principles.

Compressor is one way to go. Here is the signal flow.

Vocal track as normal and set its output to normal output (ie Masterbuss or a vocal buss) So now we hear the vocal as normal.

Create a buss and insert a delay on that buss and set it to 100% wet.

Create s SEND on the vocal track and send the vocal signal now into the delay buss. We now hear delay on the vocals as one would expect.

Insert compressor over the delay on the delay buss after the delay.

Set that compressor now to receive the vocal signal and put it into sidechain mode.

Vocal will now control the amount of delay you are hearing. When vocal signal is present delay compressor operates and ducks the delay signal down. When vocal signal is not present delay compressor returns to normal and lets last words of vocal be delayed and turned up as a result.

Linear you are wrong and need to really digest this, set this up and play with it and then move on!

Jeff Evans


I get a very strong feeling that LinearPhase does not even know the basic sidechain principles.

Compressor is one way to go. Here is the signal flow.

Vocal track as normal and set its output to normal output (ie Masterbuss or a vocal buss) So now we hear the vocal as normal.

Create a buss and insert a delay on that buss and set it to 100% wet.

Create s SEND on the vocal track and send the vocal signal now into the delay buss. We now hear delay on the vocals as one would expect.

Insert compressor over the delay on the delay buss after the delay.

Set that compressor now to receive the vocal signal and put it into sidechain mode.

Vocal will now control the amount of delay you are hearing. When vocal signal is present delay compressor operates and ducks the delay signal down. When vocal signal is not present delay compressor returns to normal and lets last words of vocal be delayed and turned up as a result.

Linear you are wrong and need to really digest this, set this up and play with it and then move on!

Ok!!  Finally..   I can admit I was incorrect.   IF you could have just explained that on page 1, we could have gotten to this a lot sooner..   I get it now...

Audio Track 1 is routed to the send, and the send of audio track 1 is routed to the sidechain compressor?   hmmm..   Interesting, ok, I will check it out...

I know how to use sidechain compression, but I do not know everything about it...   I do not know everything..   And nobody was explaining how to do this precisely with just the compression.   Now you have..  


Ok..  Lets move on then

Cheers



Edit = what did not occur to me, is you could route 1 track, both ways like this..   that is really interesting!!

I am glad you got it Linear. Where Karl went wrong in post #2 was he failed to mention where the vocal track was also output and that was to its normal output as usual so one can hear it.

He said this:
Set up a delay 100% wet on a buss, send the lead vocal to it.  
 
He implied in his post #2 that the vocal was sent or output to the delay buss which it is not. Vocal track needs to be output as normal so you hear it as normal. A send needs to be created on the vocal track and sent to the delay buss. That was what he meant of course. One has to be clear with any choice of words otherwise things can easily be misinterpreted.

Tunekicker I am not singling you out here..  I said, "after work, I would come back and make a last response to the thread. 





No offense taken. I don't mind being singled out if I'm wrong.  

My post was a bit unclear. Assuming you already have an audio track, already have a bus for delay, and already have a send from the audio track to the delay bus, inserting a side-chain capable compressor or ducking gate and then sending another send from the audio track to the side-chain input should work as desired.

Side-chaining requires two things- the audio signal that is meant to be affected and heard, and the audio signal that is meant to trigger the affect. You are correct- without an audio send to the bus itself you would hear no sound (unless the listen function is enabled on the side-chained device, but there would be no point to doing this here.)

Sometimes I use the side-chained gate after reverb or delay trick myself, for the opposite affect- I only want the delay to happen when the vocal is in the midst of a phrase, and don't want delay tails hanging out after the vocal is done. 

Separating the audio signal and trigger signal out, there are essentially 3 useful options:

1. Gate before delay, non side-chained. The gate responds to the dry signal and affects the dry signal, which is then sent to the delay. No trigger signal is present. Delay tails would decay naturally.
2. Gate after delay, non side-chained. The gate responds to the wet signal and affects the wet signal. No trigger signal is present. Delay tails would be cut of when their level drops below the gate's threshold.
3. Gate after delay, side-chain turned on, with audio routed directly to the bus and to the gate's sidechain input. The gate responds to the dry signal (trigger) but affects the wet signal (audio.) Delay tails would be cut off as soon as the vocal stops (with the attack time as a buffer.)

This can be fun to have an affected vocal track that doesn't have delay tails that hang out when the vocalist stops singing.

Peace,

Tunes

Linear one thing this discussion has brought to light for me is that yes the gate can be used as well. Simply substitute it for the compressor. Set the gate so some signal still gets through when the gate is closed. But in this mode the gate still needs to be set to work the other way around. (ie normal mode means the delays will get through loud when the vocal is present you need to use the gate in duck mode instead) The Sonitus gate can do all of these things.

I would be more inclined to go for the compressor but after this discussion I might try the gate instead. Although it is interesting that tunekicker has mentioned he prefers the sound of the compressor over the gate which means there must be a difference. I think it comes down to what you prefer here.

tunekicker also mentioned in his post the gate closing off quickly hence the delays shutting off fast but they can also slowly fade away as the gate closes. If the gate has a release time then it is possible to get the gate to close slowly rather than instantly creating the effect that the delay tails are going away slowly. In fact it is in this mode that the gate release time can be used to control the reverb time you are hearing if you are using reverb ambience instead of delay. You can use the gate release time to alter the apparent reverb time eg make a reverb shorter from a longer reverb. A gate also can create a slightly different reverb decay envelope too that normal reverbs may not give you.

Many do not know all the gate parameters that are available. It pays to sit down with the gate on any material eg kick or snare etc and fiddle with ALL the parameters that many gates have to offer. We tend to use gates as either an ON/OFF thing but they are capable of much more than that.