I currently have a reverb bus (and master bus) in each of my projects. The reverb bus has a hall or room reverb effect, and outputs to the master bus. The master bus is dry, and outputs to my sound card.

I set the "output" of each audio/synth track on which I want the reverb to the reverb bus. This is a simple way to share the reverb, but it means I can't change the reverb wet/dry amount for each track. For tracks where I want more (or less) reverb, I end up adding a different reverb instance, and then setting the track's output to the master bus. This results in multiple instances of the same reverb plugin, which isn't really ideal.

If I instead get my tracks to use a "send" to the reverb bus and set the "output" to the master bus, I can control the "wet" amount of reverb for each track. The problem I'm having is finding out how to balance the wet and dry amounts easily.

Sends are added on top of the normal output, right? So, although I can easily adjust the wet amount, the dry amount is fixed relative to the volume of the track. Do I therefore need to create a second send (to the master bus), and then set the output to nothing?

In other words, does each track need the following routing setup in order to have full wet/dry control over the reverb?

1) output -> nothing
2) send 1 -> reverb bus ("wet" amount)
3) send 2 -> master bus ("dry" amount)

Is that how you do it? Is there an easier, or more space-efficient way to accomplish the same thing, ideally one where as you increase the "wet", the dry amount automatically decreases?

If you have the synth track reverb send set to post fader once the reverb/dry level is balanced (using the reverb send level) the balance will remain no matter what you do to the fader.

The send level will decrease or increase relative to the volume fader.

I thought post meant that the signal was sent to the send after the faders (and insert effects). So, the send's input level would be directly related to the track's volume level; if you set the track's volume to 0, the send would not get any input either, so you'd have neither wet nor dry, just silence.

I thought pre meant that the signal branched before the faders and effects. The send's input would be taken directly from the "raw" audio (synth output or wav file) and would be unaffected by track volume or insert effects. If you set the volume to 0, the send would still get the full signal, and so the track would be completely "wet" in terms of reverb (but with none of the insert effects).

Is this incorrect?

As an aside, I'm curious if there is a way to control the precise order in which effects and sends occur? In other words, can we allow a couple effects to happen before a send, and then a couple more effects after the send? My guess is we'd need multiple buses to do that.

No you are correct perhaps I misunderstood your original question.

I though you wanted to maintain the ratio of wet/dry signal.

If that is what you want then the send level should be post. The idea is you set the reverb level in relation to the dry via the send level knob. Once you've done that you can forget the send level and just adjust the levels via the track fader, the reverb level will increase/reduce along with the dry when changing the fader thus maintaining the balance.

As an aside, I'm curious if there is a way to control the precise order in which effects and sends occur? In other words, can we allow a couple effects to happen before a send, and then a couple more effects after the send? My guess is we'd need multiple buses to do that.

Just saw this. AFAIK sends are always post FX.

you set the reverb level in relation to the dry via the send level knob

This is what is confusing me.

With a post send:
- If send = 0% and volume = 100%, the mix is 100% dry.
- If send = 100% and volume = 100%, the mix is 50% wet, 50% dry (assuming the send's output is the same loudness as the dry output).
- If send = 100% and volume = 0%, the mix is 0% wet, 0% dry (completely silent).
- There doesn't seem to be a way to get a completely wet mix with a post send.

With a pre send:
- If send = 0% and volume = 100%, the mix is 100% dry.
- If send = 100% and volume = 100%, the mix is 50% wet, 50% dry.
- If send = 100% and volume = 0%, the mix is 100% wet.

Is that correct?

If so, it seems like a pre send is the only way we can have full control over wet/dry ratio.

However, with a pre send reverb, none of the insert effects (e.g., delay, phaser, distortion) will get sent to the reverb, correct? That's not ideal.

It seems like if we want both full wet/dry control *and* insert effects included in the reverb, then we need to use at least one more bus:

1) track post send 1 -> reverb bus
2) track post send 2 -> dry bus
3) track output -> nothing

Is that correct?

(My Triton made this easy, since each track had wet/dry knobs for the master effects (usually reverb), which were post. So each track would have full wet/dry control, and the insert effects were included in the reverb. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to do in Sonar.)

Don't get too caught up in the relationship between fader and send level.

The send level works independently of the fader regardless of the pre/post switch. It only affects how it reacts to the volume fader movement. If you have too much reverb at any given volume setting reduce the send level, not enough increase the send level. The dry won't change only the wet.

However when you reduce the volume fader both the wet & dry reduce accordingly maintaining the balance you between the two.

How can you have 100% wet with a post-fader send?

Let's say you have a reverb on a track, and at the end of the song you want the main audio to fade to 0, but the reverb to remain, so that you can *only* hear the reverb. With a pre-fader send, you would simply lower the track volume to 0 but keep the send level the same. With a post-fader send, it seems impossible.

Tripecac


I currently have a reverb bus (and master bus) in each of my projects. The reverb bus has a hall or room reverb effect, and outputs to the master bus. The master bus is dry, and outputs to my sound card.

I set the "output" of each audio/synth track on which I want the reverb to the reverb bus. This is a simple way to share the reverb, but it means I can't change the reverb wet/dry amount for each track. For tracks where I want more (or less) reverb, I end up adding a different reverb instance, and then setting the track's output to the master bus. This results in multiple instances of the same reverb plugin, which isn't really ideal.

If I instead get my tracks to use a "send" to the reverb bus and set the "output" to the master bus, I can control the "wet" amount of reverb for each track. The problem I'm having is finding out how to balance the wet and dry amounts easily.

Sends are added on top of the normal output, right? So, although I can easily adjust the wet amount, the dry amount is fixed relative to the volume of the track. Do I therefore need to create a second send (to the master bus), and then set the output to nothing?

In other words, does each track need the following routing setup in order to have full wet/dry control over the reverb?

1) output -> nothing
2) send 1 -> reverb bus ("wet" amount)
3) send 2 -> master bus ("dry" amount)

Is that how you do it? Is there an easier, or more space-efficient way to accomplish the same thing, ideally one where as you increase the "wet", the dry amount automatically decreases?

You don't want to use the outputs at the bottom of the channel to go to the reverb bus. Set those outputs to the master. Use the send to go to the reverb and then the reverb goes to the master.

Tripecac


I thought post meant that the signal was sent to the send after the faders (and insert effects). So, the send's input level would be directly related to the track's volume level; if you set the track's volume to 0, the send would not get any input either, so you'd have neither wet nor dry, just silence.

I thought pre meant that the signal branched before the faders and effects. The send's input would be taken directly from the "raw" audio (synth output or wav file) and would be unaffected by track volume or insert effects. If you set the volume to 0, the send would still get the full signal, and so the track would be completely "wet" in terms of reverb (but with none of the insert effects).

Is this incorrect?

As an aside, I'm curious if there is a way to control the precise order in which effects and sends occur? In other words, can we allow a couple effects to happen before a send, and then a couple more effects after the send? My guess is we'd need multiple buses to do that.

You are correct, but whatever reverb you choose for the reverb bus make sure the wet is all the way up and the dry is all the way down in the reverbs settings. some presets will change the setting. in the Sonitus reverb all the aux presets are meant for busses because the wet is all the way up while the dry is all the way down.


Even though the post send goes through the fader, you should still get a dry signal from the output at the bottom of your channel strip. That output should go to the master or a subgroup. the post function allows you to turn down the volume of the reverb when the volume of the channel is lowered. your wet control will come from the level knob located in the send of the channel strip.


When using a bus for an effect the dry in that effect whatever it is should be turned all the way down. and the wet all the way up. This is what allows the level in the sends to be a control for wet signal. the overall reverb level for all tracks is then controlled by the fader in the reverb bus. At least that is how I do it.


sends are always post effects bin So whatever effects you have  in the bin and the prochannel for that matter will be included in the send.

This is an example where sending to a Reverb buss has its limits. 

If you really want to do this, what I would do in your case is fade down the track volume like you want it to fade out. Then clone the track, set the cloned track to pre-fader on the Reverb send, turn the fader all the way down, and automate the reverb send volume to fade up up at the end of the song.


Also. If you are using reverb on busses ONLY for some reason and want a 100% wet mix of anything that's easy. Just route the output of the track to the Reverb bus, or use a Reverb send and set the output of the track to nothing.
Peace,

Tunes