Well, even defining "loops" is fairly problematic these days.  Let's say I play in several 4 and 8 bars patterns on my NI Maschine.  Then I tweak them by trying several different instruments on each pad till I find what I think will work on my project.  Then I "assemble" those patterns either inside Maschine or drag and drop them into Sonar thereby creating my drumtrack for the project.  Did I use loops?  Am I a looper?  Would it be any different if I took an actual performing drummer and recorded him/her onto a track of my project, then went about tweaking (replacing, even) their recorded verses and choruses and individual kit pieces until I was happy.  Is the difference because I played them in?  What about If just "scored" them in by hand in the PRV?  Is it because I did them in verses and choruses and not linearly from start to finish?  Is it because I tweaked them?  What if I play a repetitive guitar part in and then pick and choose the 4 or 5 best bars and then copy and paste to fill the track?  Is that looping?  By the common definition of "looping" I probably would never be considered one.  But I'm pretty sure that if I step back and look at how I create my music I qualify. 

stevec


Geez, AT...    All I can say is +1   
 
I also understand the purist aspect where everything is played live.  I completely get that, having played live for a few decades myself.  But when it comes to recording, and specifically home/project studio recording, aren't "limits" the one thing we've been trying to eliminate all along?   I say bring on everything we can get in DAW-land.
 

I had a guy in the studio a couple of weeks ago.  He was the lead singer for the 3-piece band I was recording.  He refused to do anything in the studio that he could not pull off live.  i.e. If he could not play a complex riff while singing, there was no way he was going to record that complex riff, even if he could play it without singing, giving 100% of his concentration to the riff.


So, I guess, musicians have their own personal ethics around this stuff - not just looping.

Good thoughts as always, ol' pal.
 
I think one of the sticking points that some have is a matter of who created the "loop".   If it's their own creation it's OK, but if it's a purchase... not so much.   Not that I personally see a big difference between a store bought loop and having someone else play something which you later edit and, uh, loop.
 
Then there are those that simply play everything live, all the time, and don't loop anything in any fashion.   Old skool, and certainly nothing wrong with that.
 
Then there's that middle ground which you described so well...   Though I would venture to say that since you played in the parts, what you do with them afterwards is simply not the same as selecting from a list of preformatted clips to create a piece.   To some people, that is.      I don't happen to be one of them since I do use loops and like 'em, but there it is...
 
 

Another thing to consider here is that this question is being asked on a Sonar forum.  Yes, Sonar has lots of tools for looping, but if someone who uses a lot of loops in their music was in the market for a DAW, they'd probably be buying something like Ableton Live or Fruity Loops.

I think Sonar is more perceived as a Multi-Track recorder in software.  At least when Project 5 was a separate product, it was a package a "looper" would identify as a tool made for them.  Sonar is much broader and probably not seen as a specific enough product for that kind of consumer.

If he could not play a complex riff while singing, there was no way he was going to record that complex riff, even if he could play it without singing, giving 100% of his concentration to the riff.

 
That seems to me to be more along the lines of documenting a performance rather than creating in the studio.  But hey, it's a long-standing tradition!   Wasn't it in the 70's that recording studios started to become an "instrument" in their own right?
 

Not a looper, myself, but I'm always willing to play devil's advocate.

When you hire a professional session musician to come in and lay down a drum track or a bass part or a guitar solo, do you really think he's making up all those cool licks on the spot just for you?

bitflipper


Not a looper, myself, but I'm always willing to play devil's advocate.

When you hire a professional session musician to come in and lay down a drum track or a bass part or a guitar solo, do you really think he's making up all those cool licks on the spot just for you?

Nope, but hopefully he's listening and putting his own interpretation into what he plays.  Hopefully he's hearing inflections and accents and playing something that tastefully works with what he's hearing.


Loops don't listen.

Loops don't listen.

 
Good thing loops can be tweaked.   

I use everything that is available to me. Loops is/are one of them.

I am an instrumental musician, I play guitar, bass, drums and percussion ect, I don't use loops in my solo acoustic songs. That being said I don't feel as though loop is a bad four letter word. 

I have used some loops in instrument projects with lots of tracks. I have used midi loops with session drummer on occasion. I don't feel there is anything wrong with using them.
they are just another tool for creating and experimenting. When I get some time ahead I plan on experimenting with the matrix view just to see what I can really do with loops. Loops sharpen your orchestration skills and they serve as a great exercise for composition and writing.


There are a lot of songs I write where loops would serve no purpose, but they sure are fun to experiment with in certain situations.