This topic is probably beat to death, but does anyone have tips and ideas for making symphonic instruments sound like the real deal?  I was hoping for a list of some kind.  One that makes a difference.  I realize that in the end mixing depends on your aural talents, but was wondering if there are things that are common to all symphonic productions.
 
Thanks!

TO MY EARS,
anything other than the real thing, sounds fake.
 
i've heard some really nice high end software working,
and it's more about the timing of things,
and individual player techniques,
that makes symphonic sound either natural or fake,
rather than the quality of the samples.
 
so, if you are going to try to make it more 'real'
i'd suggest putting in the human touch in every aspect you can edit.

So, every 80's synth band that was trying to sound like real instruments sounds fa....
 
Never mind I just answered the question for you.
 

eph221
This topic is probably beat to death, but does anyone have tips and ideas for making symphonic instruments sound like the real deal?  I was hoping for a list of some kind.  One that makes a difference.  I realize that in the end mixing depends on your aural talents, but was wondering if there are things that are common to all symphonic productions.
 
Thanks!

It's probably the most boring answer but learn about the instruments. Get to know how they work. Listen how an orchestra sounds and learn from that. Use of dynamics and playing articulations.
 
Making a real sounding symphonic mock up isn't easy and is going to take a boat load of time tweaking everything.

Start here.....
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OktpoOztRvQ&list=PLha8jec_dVTZc190Q9YcrXZ-iJfDZGIgj
 

Some brilliant minds told me another thread about another topic in another forum that almost all samples have a full attack, when real musicians playing on string or wind instruments only first note in a sequence has the full attack and the others have different shorter attacks. So I'm told a good legato engine is key or some other way to not have a full attack on every note but only the first one or ones with a sufficient pause between notes.

It is truly an art to write "realistically" for virtual orchestra. Here is an example of what can be accomplished with skill and patience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OsGjbl0vbY 
The music is all virtual instruments synched to a video of a real orchestra. See what you think of what the midi orchestrator did...
 
I divide the process of writing for virtual orchestra into 3 segments: Composition, Performance and Production. The "performance" section can easily take as long as composition. This is where CCs are tweaked, ADSRs and legato attacks are nuanced, etc. It also helps a lot to play each part rather than enter it by hand. The subtle timing differences go a long way into fooling the brain into thinking it was played by humans rather than a computer.
 
Here are a bunch of resources to review:
 
Resources, paid and free
Paid
Groove 3 has a good video on midi orchestration:

• https://www.groove3.com/recording-and-production-training-video-tutorials/midi-orchestration-explained 

 
AskVideo.com has a few as well:

• Orchestration 101: The String Section
• Orchestration 102: The Wind Section
• Orchestration 301: The MIDI Orchestra - Enhancing Realism
• Orchestration 302: The MIDI Orchestra - Designing Templates

Free
Composing a film score by Andrew Gerlichinger Pt. 1
Composing a film score by Andrew Gerlichinger Pt. 2
How to compose a film score by Andrew Gerlichinger
 
Behind the Score - Making of Classical Film Music by Hugo Tromp
 
Ironwind - A Guide to MIDI Orchestration by Sam Garner Pt. 1
Ironwind - A Guide to MIDI Orchestration by Sam Garner Pt. 2
Ironwind - A Guide to MIDI Orchestration by Sam Garner Pt. 3
 
String arranging by Pete Whitfield
 
Live Composition Screencast by Mike Patti Pt. 1
Live Composition Screencast by Mike Patti Pt. 2
Live Composition Screencast by Mike Patti Pt. 3
Live Composition Screencast by Mike Patti Pt. 4
Live Composition Screencast by Mike Patti Pt. 5
 
5 Tips for Effective Orchestration by Andy McWain
 
Technical
 
8 Tipps for realistic MIDI sequencing by Andrew Gerlichinger
 
Creating realistic strings by Nick Murray
 
Dave

DRanck
Here is an example of what can be accomplished with skill and patience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OsGjbl0vbY 

Cue batsbrew to say that it sounds fake and should have been done with a real guitar and amp.

I hate to recommend the PreSonus forum (I got banned), but the Notion subforum is an excellent source for peeps doing what you're trying to do. Search for a user named 'michaelmyers1'. He's GOOOOOOD. And you'll want something at least as sophisticated as Notion (which I have, as well as Forte 7 Premium). If you're writing for full orchestra, you'll want to do that in something other than SONAR, or any DAW, really. Notion can use any of your orchestral VIs.
 
https://forums.presonus.com/viewforum.php?f=167
 
Here's Michael's SoundCloud page.
 
https://soundcloud.com/tensivity

Here's someone that will break your concepts:
https://soundcloud.com/mattiaswestlund
 
Mattias doesn't use expensive orchestral libraries, he mostly uses Soundfonts! Checkout his articles here: http://mattiaswestlund.net/?page_id=29
What he does with those libraries blows me away.