Silicon Audio

bapu


The nice think about drumagog is you can use nearly any VSTi drumpler (i.e. EZDrummer, Superior, BFD etc) as the source of the replacement sound.

The same is true with Audio Snap.  You end up with a bunch of midi notes that can work with any sampler, VSTi, DXi, external midi synth, etc...  I've used AS a lot to replace/augment snare and it's worked brilliantly.

Agreed. 


There are many ways to get the job done. For me Drumagog is so much simpler. Load it in the FXbin of the audio track, choose a kit piece. Done.

I found using A/S to create MIDI tedious and more prone to errors than Drumagog.


Granted Drumagog is an expense and if you're happy with your results with A/S then that is all that matters.

As long as we're on the subject: Melodyne has a percussion mode that can create midi tracks.

Rocky

bapu

I found using A/S to create MIDI tedious and more prone to errors than Drumagog.


Granted Drumagog is an expense and if you're happy with your results with A/S then that is all that matters.

How does Drumagog handle a situation where half the hits are rim-taps and you only want a sampled snare on the snare hits?  I like having the midi rendered to a track so that I can edit it.

Drumagog looks neat, but not inthe budget right now.  Just finished a round of upgrades to my electric violin rig, a new mic, X2 update - not installed yet, windows 7 - seems like I finally need to make the jump from XP, and the latest Finale update.  Feels like every time I sneeze I shell out $100-$200!

FBB - It's not the threshold.  I've managed to easily get out all the snare drum bleeds, etc. and it's not so easy as a mass edit - only some of the markers come early.

There is a consistency in which markers are early.  Only the ones where the kick is silent before the hit are early.  That is kick on beats 1 & 3 have early markers.  When the drum is hit twice in succession, the second hit is always marked correctly - that is if the drummer plays 1 rest 3& rest, the 1 & 3 have early markers, the & of 3 has it's marker right on time.

This makes me think it can't be subsonic triggering - there's nothing there that split second before the kick gets hit.  The drum is still...

I've done quite a number of kick drum replacements with A/S, but this has never happened before.

sethmopod

There is a consistency in which markers are early.  Only the ones where the kick is silent before the hit are early.  That is kick on beats 1 & 3 have early markers.  When the drum is hit twice in succession, the second hit is always marked correctly - that is if the drummer plays 1 rest 3& rest, the 1 & 3 have early markers, the & of 3 has it's marker right on time.

This makes me think it can't be subsonic triggering - there's nothing there that split second before the kick gets hit.  The drum is still...

I've done quite a number of kick drum replacements with A/S, but this has never happened before.

I still wouldn't rule it out.  For me, I think it was the way the drummer was resting the kick beater on the kick-drum batter head.  Some drummers rest on the kick batter head - this is especially true when the kick beats aren't subsequent - which just happens to be when you get the early trigger.  A sub-sonic movement could be generated as the batter head springs back when the beater is lifted.

I could see the subsonics on my woofers and they didn't coincide with the kick beats.

You could test this theory simply by putting a high-pass filter on the kick track and rendering it to a clip before enabling Audio Snap.  Cut somewhere below 30 Hz if you can.

If you want to send me a short audio sample from your kick track - PM me and I'll do the donkey work.  If we can figure out the cause, we could probably find a way for CW to fix this in a patch or future release.  A/S would simply need to ignore anything below, say, 20 Hz.

Good point.  He is a pedal pusher so to speak.  I'll try bouncing the track with a filter on it and reapplying A/S.

sethmopod


I'm replacing a kick drum in a mix.  On about every other kick hit, the audio snap transient marker is being placed well before the kick drum actually starts.  Far enough ahead that it creates a noticable double transient on the kick when mixed with room mics/overheads etc. I can, of course, manually move each affected transient marker to the right spot, but how many times does a kick drum get hit during a 4 minute song!?  I started on that and it's mind numbing and will take forever.

I had a thread a couple of years ago about how limited audio snap is.  There was absolutely no control about how audio snap placed it's transients.  IE, if you could choose the dynamic or volume threshhold at which transients are placed, AS would be hugely more usable.  As it was, you often had to manually correct many or most of the transients if you wanted tight control over your quantization.
 
It doesn't look like anything has changed is X2! The 'filter threshold' and 'filter resolution' that you can set only apply to the quantity and tempo of the transients.  The point on the decibel curve where transients are placed it still 100% automated with zero control given to the user.
 
Audiosnap does pretty well with some stuff.  Not so well with other stuff.
 
The only thing that I've found that helps at all is making sure you have the tempo set correctly. 
 
When is CW going to put a user definible transient threshold in Audiosnap?  Surely they're aware there's a need?
 
Peace,
 
Ian
 

@SiliconAudio thanks for sharing your experience. I'm going to try this myself next time with AudioSnap. There are a lot of things I wish worked better with AS, but really the biggest one is accurate placement of transient markers. If that were done better most of the rest of the problems are easy to overcome. I think you may be on to something. 


For what it's worth, I've sometimes pre-processed drum tracks I know I'm going to sample replace by printing EQ filters, transient designer, etc. onto the tracks to make the transients more obvious. I've done less of this now that I replace primarily with Slate Trigger and its smart Leakage Suppression feature. 


Basically you place Trigger on a bus and send the things you want to trigger a sample to the left, and the things you don't to the right. Trigger then has levels you can set for how sensitive it is to each, enabling you to easily trigger a snare sample on snare hits without triggering the snare sample when the high hat or kick or toms are hit. This feature is BRILLIANT. Between this and setting the Sensitivity almost all the way down, Retrigger almost all the way up, and Detail almost all the way down it is easy to get ghost notes on the snare. For kicks I usually bring the Detail up since most drummers don't do subtle kick hits.


Peace,


Tunes

tunekicker

There are a lot of things I wish worked better with AS, but really the biggest one is accurate placement of transient markers.

For what it's worth, I've sometimes pre-processed drum tracks I know I'm going to sample replace by printing EQ filters, transient designer, etc. onto the tracks to make the transients more obvious. I've done less of this now that I replace primarily with Slate Trigger and its smart Leakage Suppression feature. 

Trigger then has levels you can set for how sensitive it is to each (sample), enabling you to easily trigger a snare sample on snare hits without triggering the snare sample when the high hat or kick or toms are hit. This feature is BRILLIANT. Between this and setting the Sensitivity almost all the way down, Retrigger almost all the way up, and Detail almost all the way down it is easy to get ghost notes on the snare. For kicks I usually bring the Detail up since most drummers don't do subtle kick hits.

This absolutely the kind of sensitivily threshold Cakewalk needs to put into Audiosnap!

This absolutely the kind of sensitivily threshold Cakewalk needs to put into Audiosnap! 





Yes! Just having a frequency sweep and listen function like a de-esser would be awesome. Then we could tell AudioSnap more about which transients we actually want it to detect. Having something closer to Trigger would be amazing.

Peace,

Tunes