2012/10/09 10:06:42
xxxsoundxxx
  Ok,I have been in the search for the intended use of the console emulator to no end. The help site says it should be installed first in the chain: "You will typically want to insert the Console Emulator module as the first module, and make sure ProChannel has Post FX Bin disabled. However, you can also experiment with placing the Console Emulator module at the end and enable Post FX Bin, so all your effects and processed sound are affected." Apparently the typical (intended?) application is first in the chain then why do all the pro channel presets have it last in the module order? The two guys in the cake video have it that way too. Was there a third party that makes that module I could ask for the proper positioning to get results closest to real console emulation? Their intended use? I asked cake and it stumped tech support. Since it has a trim control wouldn't first in the chain be closest to the real thing? I mean you wouldn't put a input trim control after the effects,compressor etc. right? (unless they were outboard guitar pedals etc.) On the other hand, effects and everything do run in a real console also and aren't separated from it. Seems to me real console emulation would have to have a trim control first in line and affect everything in the channel to the output.
2012/10/09 10:25:42
synkrotron
I wish I knew.

I've never had my hands on a real console.

Is it a dry signal that is routed to the console? Or one that already has effects applied? If it is the former, then I would place the console emulator as the first effect in any chain.

Does a signal go into a console dry, then sent out to an effect, and back in again to the console return? If so, would it not be a good idea to add yet another instance of console emulator?

I sure don't know. But I'm adding it to my tracks and busses with gay abandon.
2012/10/09 10:44:12
musicroom
I need to experiment more with this. I use it last with good results, but I will try it first in the chain to see if I like it that way better. 

Good Topic
2012/10/09 11:00:36
jb101
Noel said on here to  put it last usually.  His reasoning was that the effect is subtle, and if, for example, you have compressors after it then they will exaggerate parts of the effect.
 
Seth and Brandon both use them at the end in the webinars.  It's last in all the presets.  One of their technical people said use it last.
 
I've been using it last with nice results.  Only time I haven't is on master bus, where I've put the CL after it.
 
Edited to add Noel's name and remove split infinitive.
2012/10/09 11:20:25
Taurean Mixing

Let me first say that after multiple listening tests, including other people's shootouts who posted (such as on gearslutz) I stand by my first impressions that I posted here a few weeks ago. I see the X2 console emu more like a digital saturator than an analog console. Please check out my other posts for my explanation. Having said all that, I have also stated that I think they can still be useful as effects rather than as a necessary workflow element to convening the mix or acting as a subtle enhancing glue like a console. But still, to use it as such here's a "real-world" working scenario:

engage the console channel for each track FIRST. Then from there use your EQ's, compressors just like you would on a console emulating insert points. As per the signal flow, these track signals will then be hitting buses. At the buses, insert console bus as FIRST in the chain. Then again, do any bus EQ'ing or compression or whatever. As this is routed to a main bus, you can once again have a console bus open there FIRST in the chain if you like. 

The important thing to remember, which is most often ignored or overlooked, is the gain staging. These meters indicate a dBFS scale which means our "0" will be hovering somewhere below the digital 0 indicated on the scale. I believe it is around -18 dbFS. I don't like to VU or RMS or average meters, I think they are not that useful for gain staging. Using a good peak meter you can set your signals with the aim of -18 but the peaks ultimately dictate how much to push it and your ears MOST IMPORTANTLY will tell you if you are set okay.

Again, see I feel these to be more like saturators I didn't find I had good results using them like a console. But I like using these emu's to enhance a signal within an FX chain flow. But try it both ways for yourselves. See what works for you. 

2012/10/09 11:20:31
BretB
I would think it might fall at the end of the chain so that it might do "its magic" on what ever else is happening on a given channel.  The trim control, as I understand it, affects how much magic is applied and nothing to do with input gain.
2012/10/09 11:51:21
bobgassert
I found putting the console emulator last seems to not register well on the VU Meters ...First inline gets a healthy signal which means the threshhold for emulation is better for the plugin ..... Personaly seems to sound the same either way but the gain structure seems more matched
2012/10/09 12:17:37
Mystic38
xxxsoundxxx


  Ok,I have been in the search for the intended use of the console emulator to no end. The help site says it should be installed first in the chain: "You will typically want to insert the Console Emulator module as the first module, and make sure ProChannel has Post FX Bin disabled. However, you can also experiment with placing the Console Emulator module at the end and enable Post FX Bin, so all your effects and processed sound are affected." Apparently the typical (intended?) application is first in the chain then why do all the pro channel presets have it last in the module order? The two guys in the cake video have it that way too. Was there a third party that makes that module I could ask for the proper positioning to get results closest to real console emulation? Their intended use? I asked cake and it stumped tech support. Since it has a trim control wouldn't first in the chain be closest to the real thing? I mean you wouldn't put a input trim control after the effects,compressor etc. right? (unless they were outboard guitar pedals etc.) On the other hand, effects and everything do run in a real console also and aren't separated from it. Seems to me real console emulation would have to have a trim control first in line and affect everything in the channel to the output.

To me, the intended use of a console emulator is just that...to emulate a console... no piece of electronic cccty is either true or accurate, and hence its an emulated representation of how a strip sounds, or was measured.. in this way its no different than a softube saturation emulating a valve stage with its even harmonic distortion and soft clipping attributes.. highly coloured and totally non linear...
 
Given that like synk i have never used a *real* console.. it really doesnt matter to me at all... but in playing , testing, evaluating i put the consoles first in the strip and forget about it. Do i need it?.. nope. does it make a real difference?.. dunno really, after all, you would eq & fx completely different with one rather than the other...so jury is out to me.
2012/10/09 12:30:53
PTheory
I'm loving the console emulator (especially the Neve setting)  I use it last on every channel and bus, here are some results

http://soundcloud.com/p-theory/p-theory-ko-featuring-koaste
2012/10/09 12:34:40
cclarry
As Bapu has stated..

The FIRST thing that a device hits is the CONSOLE, not the effects, as effects are added on busses
and usually a 'THROUGH" device out of "SENDS" of the console and back again through "RETURNS".

That being said the seemingly LOGICAL place to use the Emulator would seem to be the FIRST
spot...BUT...if the Programmers designed it with the LAST location in mind....then that would
be it.....NOT LOGICAL, as you would want the "Circuit" effect before the "EXTERNAL" effects are added
to gain the "effects" of the circuit as in the REAL world.

I've learned that it's all subjective....to each persons ears....

In the REAL world...it is NOT subjective....it is a given that, other then an external Preamp, the CONSOLE is the FIRST thing that the signal should and DOES hit...THEN the effects...

IN THE REAL WORLD...not the "emulated" one...
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