Sorry if this is an old\repeat question but I've been out of the loop and a quick search did not get me what I would like to know. What does the improved low latency audio engine enhancements in X2 amount to? I have a Presonus Firestudio 10x10 and for the most part have no problems but there are times (when least desired) that the audio engine drops particularly with a number of tracks and additional effects processing. I have found ways to work around it, but is the expectation with X2 that some of these work arounds may no longer be needed?
 
Thanks

I'm guessing, as every DAW can and will react different. But i'm assuming that you'll be able to get lower latency with higher track counts

CJ

You shouldn't be getting dropouts unless you're are running a HUGE number of tracks and/or plugins.

I'd look to your settings before asking about engine improvements.

As an example, I was able to run a project with 75+ audio tracks, well over 100 plugins, many, many instances of live V-Vocal clips on 8.5PE working in XP32 with 4gB of RAM, and the audio engine did not enter into my ability to stretch this project any further

The engine enhancements were addressed a little bit in the webinar. They said that doing things like dragging new FX in and adding new synths and turning on and off stuff is much better and close to a gapless engine. They said a true gapless engine is not really possible, but that it's now pretty much gapless most of the time.

As for specific talk on latency, I do not recall that being mentioned in the webinar at least.

I just hope the "audio improvements" isn't based on Windows 8 Audio improvements. I will not be upgrading to Windows 8 due to the UI being basically a tablet OS.  In the web seminar, they did mention using/getting 2ms latency but wouldn't use it during a live broadcast.

Jumbicat


I just hope the "audio improvements" isn't based on Windows 8 Audio improvements. I will not be upgrading to Windows 8 due to the UI being basically a tablet OS.  In the web seminar, they did mention using/getting 2ms latency but wouldn't use it during a live broadcast.

They didn't say anything about audio improvements being Windows 8 specific.  They made a pretty big deal about the audio engine having been improved - I guess if that was all Win 8 related they would have said. 

Yea, its a general enhancement most likely. With that said, i'm sure Windows 8 is more efficient than win 7 , Vista and XP, So
you will see better performance using Win 8.. That's just how things work in the software age

Cj

Jumbicat


I just hope the "audio improvements" isn't based on Windows 8 Audio improvements. I will not be upgrading to Windows 8 due to the UI being basically a tablet OS.  In the web seminar, they did mention using/getting 2ms latency but wouldn't use it during a live broadcast.

Windows 8 has also allowed for the option to "turn off" the Metro interface for those who don't want to use it,
which is something that I'm ecstatic about...

Hey, all. I've been lurking for a while and can't help but notice the awesome, enthusiastic, tight-knit group on this forum.

I've got a show-stopper related to the audio engine that I'm hoping X2 addresses. It sucks that this has to be my first post to the forum, but...

There seems to be an issue in X1, relative to other DAWs, on the same hardware, all things being equal, in terms of lesser audio engine performance. Specifically, with VSTs as instruments (it does not affect effects). I recreated a mastering chain (mostly Softube and Waves VSTs), to exact specifications, within Cubase, Reaper and X1d (all in 64-bit mode) on a newly built screamer of a machine (water cooled Ivy Bridge running at 4.7ghz, 32gb of 1800ddr3, SSD, etc.). I'm getting really great (low) DPC latency on this beast -- below 100 microseconds and even dipping down into the low 40's. It never spikes above even the yellow line.

All DAWs have similar, high latency, buffer settings with my MOTU 896HD audio interface running on a dedicated ti-chipset-based firewire card (SIIG -- I researched this extensively. "ti chipset" is key). Running at the modest 44.1Khz. Latest drivers, Windows 7 64bit Pro up-to-date, etc.

Cubase runs the live VST chain at about 30% CPU utilization with plenty of free CPU left over for a responsive UI and quite a few number of VST instrument tracks before having to freeze.

Reaper does the best at about 20% CPU utilization, on this very same mastering chain. Plenty of free CPU left for VST instruments without having to freeze.

Sonar X1d initially fooled me into thinking it was going to beat Cubase. I recreated this mastering chain in it and played back a test submix (stereo wav file, 24bit, 44.1) into the chain and the CPU was at 25% with a still very responsive UI. I was thrilled and ready to officially switch to Sonar!

Then it happened, the unthinkable, the bizarre, the insidious. I swapped out that stereo submix for a re-creation of my first "real" VST instrument track -- that is, I started recreating the project in Sonar for real. VST instrument track by VST instrument track. The very first VSTi brought this performing-along-quite-well project to its knees -- audio dropouts every 3 seconds. If I disabled large parts of the mastering chain, the dropouts would eventually stop.

So, I didn't panic. I assumed it was a audio driver choice, buffer setting, etc.

4 hours later...

Hmm, does not appear to be.

Maybe it's something strange with this VSTi. So, I tried several others.

Some time later...

Nope. Oh boy. Now, I'm getting nervous.

I then hit the forums. Hard. Searching for any and all tips.

I tried just about every configuration and permutation possible (but perhaps not, a magic setting might still be out there).

Then I called Cakewalk support and after an hour or so of troubleshooting, they, too, were at an impasse. They confirmed that it should not be my audio interface choice or firewire drivers or card. They confirmed my feeling that buying a new audio interface would not change the situation (and, again, it works flawlessly with Cubase and Reaper). In fairness, the next step was to generate a debugging dump to submit to them. This is where I had to stop and put Sonar on the back burner. I ran out of free time. Back to work. Also in fairness, we tried several audio driver settings, but perhaps not every single permutation.

So, I'm back to using Cubase, for now. I'm VERY interested (obviously) to see if X2 magically fixes this template shell project of mine such that I can play even just one VSTi into my real-time mastering chain. If so, I'd be fine with freezing all but one working-track. I am not going to even entertain sacrificing my chain, as I don't have to, Cubase and Reaper will drive it with tons of CPU left over. If it were a close race, I would just accept that it's a slight difference in audio engine performance and would assume my real-time mastering chain goals are too ambitious. But, it's not a close race, there is still like 75% i7 goodness to spare! Sonar *should* be able to handle this project without breaking a sweat.

It's odd that VSTs as *effects* seem to perform on par with what you'd expect, but that VSTs as instruments do not. I'm wondering if there is some kind of cpu-expensive, thread-blocking "wrapper" for the VSTi code that is different than Sonar's VST code.

Then, after more forum searching, I found this (it would appear I'm not alone): http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=2068222&mpage=1

I also found this, which seems to support some aspects of my findings (albeit on old version of all the DAWs): http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-x-scaling.htm

As it stands, for my very specific purposes, I can't use Sonar X1. I hope X2 addresses this bizarre issue.

I'm open to any and all suggestions (that don't involve me altering my mastering chain :-) ).

Cheers.

BTW, I have X2 pre-ordered and will report back to this thread with a pass/fail of how my test, template project fares.

Best.