2015/12/02 05:05:32
azslow3
And yet another option... we can organize TeamVeiwer session and sort all than in an hour.
Alternatively send me the XML produced after step (3) and after (5).
2015/12/02 10:06:37
micv
azslow3
About 4 banks I have already answered (you should uncheck one option).

If I understand correctly, in the virtual A-PRO-1 I unchecked something like  "not include pads/button in ACT" which makes the pads and controller available for mapping.  But that still one set of 8 knobs/Sliders/Pads.  What I want to do, if possible, is to hit Bank 2 or 3, or 4 button and have another set of 8 to map to something else.
Since mapping outside of ACT does work, I'm taking a break from ACT and just trying to map the Hammond B4 plug-ins directly to the hardware so I can have some fun. In the A-PRO Editor (Roland) I don't see anyway of setting up 4 banks.
Also in ACT Editor I don't recall seeing 32 count for each type of controller.
 
I will do the sequence you lay out tonight.  btw in all my previous tests, I never did use AZCtrl.  Perhaps I misunderstood that ACT Editor can work without AZCtrl.
Again really appreciate you hanging in here with me.
 



2015/12/02 11:46:47
azslow3
For APro plug-in configuration (somehow my Notes once more):
 
  • You enable particular controls in particular bank (separately for each bank) for ACT by:
    1. selecting corresponding banks (4 buttons in the plug-in left top corner)
    2. right click some control and uncheck "Exclude...", either just one control or the whole control type, for example all pads
  • You enable ACT enabled controls in different banks affect different ACT parameter by:
    1. opening options dialog ( button toward right top corner in the plug-in window)
    2. setting corresponding option there
A-Pro editor works with hardware assignments. It has 0-19 presets, in which each control can send different MIDI messages. 0 is temporarily, 19 is used for A-Pro plug-in. So it make sense to configure 1-18.
What you see as Banks in APro plug-in is "software banks". Hardware controls are still sending the same MIDI messages in all 4 banks, but the plug-in interpret them differently.
 
ACT Editor can be used without AZCtrl. And it has limitation to map 8 sliders, 24 knobs and 16 buttons. But I think it is simpler to start with such limitation, if I get it right, you have no success at all at the moment.
 
During configuration phase, AZCtrl it good to have installed and configured in Sonar with "None" as Input/Output for several purpose:
  • ACT Editor can use its interface to follow plug-in/parameter changes in Sonar. While plug-in is easy to select in the drop box, some parameters have really cryptic names and are hard to find in the list. With "follow" option, you can just move something in the VST interface and the editor will highlight corresponding parameter.
  • If you do manual editing and want to find which name has some control in VST (as I have mentioned, it is not always trivial), you can use the Overview tab which shows last changed parameter (that is the text used by ACT Editor as well)
  • you can "prepare" genericpluginparams.xml for editing with windows Notepad (from "Tweak current configuration..." in the Options Tab). That operation can also fix some problems in that XML file.
  • you can see current ACT mapping for up to 300 controls (ACT tab). The mapping is the same for all surfaces in case sonaract.xml is zeroed (and NOT the same otherwise, what you have already experienced at the beginning since SONARX1act.xml files are also interpreted as sonaract.xml, giving that magic "build in" mapping even after you have changed something by editor or manually).
  • you can reproduce A-Pro plug-in by configuring AZCtrl. Or make your device work with completely different logic, including fancy definitions. For example, you can create 32 banks instead of 4, ask Fader 1 to always control HF gain in particular EQ instance on bus "Vocals" when you recording, while controlling "Drums" volume when playing and "ACT Fader 67" when the transport is stopped... But that use case is outside or this thread format
 
2015/12/03 10:56:31
micv
Ground control to Major azslow3, we have lift off
Got it to work with a synth and a Fx plug-ins. 
First I deleted the genericpluginparams.xml file and followed your 6 steps.  I only 'focus' a the two plug-ins that I was testing so the xml fie is small so I can observe the context.  Sonar re-generated the file and all parameters are in lower case.  In my limited testing, I found that the order which you open/close ACT Editor and Sonar doesn't seems to matter.  I didn't not configure AZCtrl in/out to none as I missed that in your post until now, so I had it at the same port as the A-PRO -1.
What really helps for troubleshooting is the AZCtrl displays the midi and the controller values as you're hitting the hardware so you can see exactly what's going in the from the hardware to the plug-ins.
I still need to take it all in and trying to understand more.
I believe that the issues I had were likely due to:
1) A 'corrupted' genericpluginparams.xml or more likely that Sonar has inherent issue of processing 'ACT Learned' parameters.
2) Bugs/crappy A-PRO plug-in.  After I got things to work, I select the A-PRO-1 interface and although the mapping is correct, the pads still not working consistently as it still displaying/sending on/off/0%/100% as you click the virtual pads, and then stuck/frozen. The hardware behaves exactly as the virtual plug-ins.  This got me confused before as I though it might be the mapping.  With the AZCtrl as interface everything works fine. 
-----------
I still need to play with the Bank setting.  My though is to use Bank3 and Bank4 to control Synth (exclude the transport button L1-L8) and leave Bank1 and 2 for default Sonar mapping. I noticed that the rotaries goes from R1 to R20 when I switch from Bank3 to Bank4, expecting R10. In ACT Editor I think that rotaries are sequential R1-32 so I still need to work on the second set of controller.
 
2015/12/03 15:54:53
azslow3
micv
Ground control to Major azslow3, we have lift off


 
Sonar re-generated the file and all parameters are in lower case.

That is ok, upper case means "ACT Learned" and it takes preference over lower case, if there are several configuration files. Since we have removed other files, there should be no difference. Lets keep it lower, that way you will see if you (by mistake) ACT learned something.
 
In my limited testing, I found that the order which you open/close ACT Editor and Sonar doesn't seems to matter.

Normally it does not. But they independently work with the same file, so in case of troubles (and you had some) it is better to be consequent.
 

I didn't not configure AZCtrl in/out to none as I missed that in your post until now, so I had it at the same port as the A-PRO -1.

If you plan to record/play MIDI with APro, I recommend to either reinsert it with "None" or check that A-Pro plug-in is listed AFTER AZCtrl in Sonar preferences. Otherwise controls will "leak" to the track/VSTi, producing really hard to understand results (like your VSTi is instantly silent, with everything looks normal... that is how I have spotted the bug for the first time).
 

I believe that the issues I had were likely due to:
1) A 'corrupted' genericpluginparams.xml or more likely that Sonar has inherent issue of processing 'ACT Learned' parameters.

+
 

2) Bugs/crappy A-PRO plug-in.  After I got things to work, I select the A-PRO-1 interface and although the mapping is correct, the pads still not working consistently as it still displaying/sending on/off/0%/100% as you click the virtual pads, and then stuck/frozen. The hardware behaves exactly as the virtual plug-ins.  This got me confused before as I though it might be the mapping.  With the AZCtrl as interface everything works fine. 

In short test I was able to reproduce that.
It looks like A-Pro plug-in does not like when the same parameter is assigned to several controls, especially pads. Note that not only duplicated control stop working (or showing 100%), other do that as well. You just have to
remove duplicated assignments (duplicated "paramindex") from XML. The simplest way is to do this manually,
"beautify" the XML with AZCtrl ("Options" tab, "Tweak current configuration...", "*Format genericpluginparams.xml")
and then edit it with Notepad.
 
I noticed that the rotaries goes from R1 to R20 when I switch from Bank3 to Bank4, expecting R10. In ACT Editor I think that rotaries are sequential R1-32 so I still need to work on the second set of controller.

Knobs are mapped to ACT controls in banks order. So in your example Bank3 Knobs are ACT Knobs 1-9, in Bank3 Knobs are ACT Knobs 10-19 (if you have ACT enabled all 9 knobs).
But Sonar has "intelligent" mapping strategy. To keep it short: from XML remove all parameters for which you do not have controls (or at least move them to the end of the list). I mean if you have only 16 ACT buttons (Bank3/Bank4 with 8 buttons each) but in XML there are 24 buttons mentioned before knobs, first 8 ACT Knobs will control what is listed for the last 8 buttons in XML. While I could understand the logic behind and how that was thought to be helpful, it works the same way as Communism: theory is good, but no one has managed to make it good in practice 
 
 
2015/12/03 16:55:00
micv
azslow3
In short test I was able to reproduce that.
It looks like A-Pro plug-in does not like when the same parameter is assigned to several controls, especially pads. Note that not only duplicated control stop working (or showing 100%), other do that as well. You just have to
remove duplicated assignments (duplicated "paramindex") from XML. The simplest way is to do this manually,
"beautify" the XML with AZCtrl ("Options" tab, "Tweak current configuration...", "*Format genericpluginparams.xml")
and then edit it with Notepad

Is it b/c ACT Editor creates the duplicate?  As I do the mapping, the parameter is not 're-assigned' but rather assigned to a specified controller, so if such para is already mapped to some other controller would that cause a duplicate?  If so then should I first do a clear all and would ACT Editor then knows to unassigned thus prevent the duplicates?
Now that I have a taste of this excellent AZCtrl, can it be used as standalone or outside of Sonar?  So for live use of synth, for example, you'd have the same mapping and control.  To do this now I have to use the very limited A-PRO Editor and remap everything.
2015/12/03 18:26:00
azslow3
ACT Editor can create duplicates, in many cases that is desired effect. Just not for A-Pro. You can clear all assignments, then assign only what you are going to use. Without duplicates. That should do the trick. You can always check manually in XML.
 
AZCtrl works with Sonar only, it does all operations throw it (using Cakewalk Control Surface API, which A-Pro plug-in is using as well). If you need more than one synth, you use some VST host in any case. And some people use Sonar live. But I am definitively not an authority in that question (I am n00b home musician).
 
As I already wrote, AZCtrl can be used in place of A-Pro plug-in. My estimation: reading documentation and tutorials, withing 30 minutes you get basic setup ("Startup preset"), within 1-2 hours you can reconstruct ACT MIDI plug-in, and after 2-3 hours you should be able to completely reproduce what A-Pro plug-in is doing. But if with normal plug-ins at that point you start making music (since they do what they do and you can not change that), with AZCtrl you will start to adopt more and more functions. You was warned
2015/12/04 00:06:19
micv

If you plan to record/play MIDI with APro, I recommend to either reinsert it with "None" or check that A-Pro plug-in is listed AFTER AZCtrl in Sonar preferences.

Argg, didn't make much progress tonight!!  I recorded a synth track but the Midi CC is not recorded no matter what controller I selected or set AZCtrl to none.  Must be something simple I overlooked.
Did however successfully use ACT Editor with AZCtrl set to none and I was able to map 'visually' by selecting a function on the synth plugin and assign it to a controller.  Very cool and save my sanity.
2015/12/04 04:12:52
azslow3
micv
Argg, didn't make much progress tonight!!  I recorded a synth track but the Midi CC is not recorded no matter what controller I selected or set AZCtrl to none.  Must be something simple I overlooked.

When you use A-Pro plug-in, it blocks MIDI CC coming from the device since it interpret it into control changes. With ACT you can write track automations instead.
2015/12/04 09:48:36
micv

With ACT you can write track automations instead.

Do you mean turn on Sonar's ACT Learn button? I thought that the keyboard's ACT button somehow passes the message to the plug-ins and onto Sonar.
So then if I look in the Event Editor view I won't see any midi CC but these events is recorded in the Track Automation Lane?
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account