2016/12/28 15:58:59
Nuclear Vampire
Hey all,
 
Haven't posted here in a few years, but my old custom built Win Vista PC is getting a little long in the tooth, so I think it's time for a new system before I have a major hardware failure. Also going to upgrade from Sonar 6 (yes, I still rock the 6!) to Sonar Pro.
 
I built the last PC back in 2008 based on what was the best recommended hardware at the time. I seem to think this little puppy may be a perfect off the shelf replacement.
 

 
I'm thinking it will need a dedicated audio card to replace the onboard one. The old PC has an M-Audio 192 card that my mixer runs into (I am sort of a one man band so I typically just record one instrument at a time), and I may try swapping it in to the new PC. Any thoughts on the PC in the link or an audio card that might suit my needs if the M-Audio doesn't work out?
2016/12/28 16:04:41
Nuclear Vampire
Ok I guess links don't work here. Anyways, its a Lenovo S510 10KY002AUS with a Core i3-6100 and 4 gigs of RAM. A 500GB HD and Win 10 Pro. Empty PCIe slot too.
2016/12/28 17:43:45
rivers88
If possible, increase the RAM to at least 8 GB, better yet 16 GB if you can swing it.
 
4 GB With Windows 10 and Sonar Pro isn't going to give you a lot of operating room.
2016/12/28 23:06:25
abacab
Nuclear Vampire
Hey all,
 
Haven't posted here in a few years, but my old custom built Win Vista PC is getting a little long in the tooth, so I think it's time for a new system before I have a major hardware failure. Also going to upgrade from Sonar 6 (yes, I still rock the 6!) to Sonar Pro.
 
I built the last PC back in 2008 based on what was the best recommended hardware at the time. I seem to think this little puppy may be a perfect off the shelf replacement.
 
 I'm thinking it will need a dedicated audio card to replace the onboard one. The old PC has an M-Audio 192 card that my mixer runs into (I am sort of a one man band so I typically just record one instrument at a time), and I may try swapping it in to the new PC. Any thoughts on the PC in the link or an audio card that might suit my needs if the M-Audio doesn't work out?




Yup, definitely 8GB min RAM with Win 10.  I have a non-DAW portable office laptop with 4GB and Sonar installed for travel, but it really feels constrained with that little amount of RAM.  At idle, just Win 10 uses over 40% of that RAM.  If I open Sonar with a new project and only Rapture Session, I am at 51% use on the RAM.
 
At one time I used a M-Audio Delta 44 PCI based interface with a break-out box.  Then I built a FireWire based PC about 10 years ago.  Things have changed.  Modern internal audio cards are almost non-existent for today's PC's.  The most commonly used interfaces now are the USB2 audio interfaces, with a few USB3 models available.  There are some hybrid USB/FireWire units, but most systems are not shipping with FireWire anymore.  Mac has killed FireWire off, in favor of Thunderbolt, which is really not a PC compatible interface as far as Windows drivers currently stand.
 
So USB2 is really all you need, but there are some USB3 options out there, for digital audio today.  Check out the units offered by Tascam, Focusrite, and Steinberg, for low entry cost. Then look at the MOTU and RME for higher end use.
2016/12/29 04:20:30
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Nuclear Vampire
 
I'm thinking it will need a dedicated audio card to replace the onboard one.

 
Apart from sufficient RAM, the next most important thing on your list.

abacab
So USB2 is really all you need, but there are some USB3 options out there, for digital audio today.  Check out the units offered by Tascam, Focusrite, and Steinberg, for low entry cost. Then look at the MOTU and RME for higher end use.


If you don't need a lot of I/O you can get one of the smaller interfaces, but if you can afford it, pick one from the top vendors RME or MOTU. It makes an incredible difference when it comes to DAW software stability.
2016/12/29 09:13:25
abacab
Nuclear Vampire
 
The old PC has an M-Audio 192 card that my mixer runs into (I am sort of a one man band so I typically just record one instrument at a time), and I may try swapping it in to the new PC.



Regarding the M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192, it has been discontinued since M-Audio was sold by Avid to inMusic Brands in 2012.  No new drivers have been released since, however they do keep a "legacy" drivers download page.  The last supported drivers were issued for Windows 7. You can read more or inquire here:
http://community.m-audio....rivers_for_win8_coming
 
PCI is being phased out, in favor of PCIe, so you may need to custom build your own computer to get it. 
 
Bottom line, it's probably going to be easier to update the audio interface to USB, and avoid the headaches of trying to swap the legacy card over.  Getting it to work properly on a newer OS with old drivers may still be an issue ...
2016/12/29 09:48:32
Nuclear Vampire
Thanks for all the awesome replies! I will definitely be going with 16 GB of RAM. The PC itself can accommodation up to 32. It also has a free PCIe slot, so it seems my M-Audio card is history. Will begin my research into an interface. The MOTU stuff looks fantastic, until I open my wallet lol
2016/12/29 15:58:18
Mister_deSade
Go as much as you can with RAM. With 16 GB you will be in a great place and won't have to deal with as much, or perhaps any latency nonsense ever. Also, consider Solid State for your main OS Drive. Install programs there and consider storing all samples and associated audio files on a secondary SATA drive of 2TB or more. I just resurrected an old PC from about 11 years ago that would barely start, replaced with a $50 Sandisk SSD and the thing is fast, like a brand new PC. 
Also, be wary if you are switching to Windows 10 on a new PC. You might have issues using previous hardware that require firewire with all these new motherboards coming out.
2017/01/01 20:34:33
BRainbow
<<<With 16 GB you will be in a great place and won't have to deal with as much, or perhaps any latency nonsense ever.>>>
 
I don't think this is accurate.  My understanding is that latency has little or nothing to do with RAM and everything to do with the audio interface and its drivers.
2017/01/01 20:53:59
abacab
The amount of RAM has nothing to do with latency ... once you have enough to load your system and programs, plus your DAW with it's project, plugins, and samples, you are all set.  Modern motherboard chipsets, memory controllers, and RAM are among the fastest components on a current PC.  That's why flash disk drives are so fast.
 
The audio hardware and drivers can be the biggest issue for DAW performance.

Sometimes you have to adjust the size of your audio buffers to allow for what you are doing.  The default does not always work best for all situations.  Small buffer sizes give you the benefit of low latency at a cost of CPU usage. Large buffers take less CPU, but creates longer latency.  You need to find the balance that works for your project and your system.  This applies to all DAWs.

Hopefully you are using a decent dedicated audio interface with low latency ASIO drivers.  But if not, and you are running Windows 10 and Platinum, you could check out the improved Sonar WASAPI driver for Win 10 just introduced in Sonar Platinum update 2016.11. http://static.cakewalk.co...AR_2016.11_Release.pdf

For adjusting audio buffers, look at these knowledge base articles:

I'm getting a delay or latency when recording or performing synths
https://www.cakewalk.com/...g-or-performing-synths

Audio Dropouts, Clicks and Pops When Playing and Recording
Audio Driver Latency/Buffer Size Needs to be increased if you are experiencing dropouts in the sense that the audio engine is completely stopping and your Cakewalk software is reporting "DROPOUT" in its Control Bar or Status Bar

https://www.cakewalk.com/...-Playing-and-Recording
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