Silicon Audio


I don't care if V-Vocal is functionally identical to X1.  All I want to see is a version of V-Vocal that doesn't crash with monotonous regularity.  Currently, if I make a V-Vocal edit, I must bounce it straight away.  If I leave live edits in place, I will eventually crash.  The more edits, the more likely the crash.

The real power of V-Vocal is in the manual manipulation.  The auto-correction is average, but as a tool, when used sparingly, it can be very, very good.

V-Vocal is NOT a plugin...
It is a built-in feature of Sonar which is meant to be use on a track and then bounced to track when editing is done.
 
It is not meant to sit in the FX bin (so to say), or to be used on multiple tracks as an effect.
It is also to be used on the smallest section of track as possible.
 
That is the official word from Cakewalk.
 
 

I currently use both VV and Melodyne, and they both have their uses depending on the situation.  If I'm correcting just a note or two in a short vocal passage, I'll use VV because it's faster and does the job well.  If I'm correcting a longer vocal line, then Melodyne is the tool for me.  They both have to be bounced down to track, anyway, so they're tied in that regard.  The draw tool in VV is very handy and has saved my butt more than once.  But, Melodyne has the blobs that are fun to play with.  As far as timing goes, they're about equal in my book.  Overall, I tend to agree with those that think VV is undervalued, but I'm happy to have both tools in my toolbox.

V-Vocal works 90%  of the time. Melodyne works the other 10% :O)

I'd be very surprised if we saw any improvements to V-Vocal in X2. If any had been implemented, I'm sure they'd be touting it in a bullet point on the X2 features list.

My su****ion is that it's been "end-of-lifed" and won't be seeing any more work done to it. Let's hope that's because a better tool is in the works for a future version.

As to V-V's place in the world relative to Melodyne and Autotune, it would be naive to suggest that it's in the same league with those other products, which have been undergoing additional development while V-Vocal has languished. Nevertheless, V-V remains a usable utility, is nicely integrated into SONAR, and does the job if you work within its limitations.

It is frustrating, though, that V-Vocal still crashes from some people. Surely CW has received enough crash dumps over the past 7 years to pinpoint the reason(s) for it. That it hasn't been addressed reinforces the theory that the product is headed for retirement.

Lots of love for Melodyne.  How about Auto-Tune?

It would be nice if Cake would team up with one of these and dump V-Vocal.  I've used V-Vocal and been a bit disappointed with the artifacts and difficulty of use.  I just make my vocalist do it over now.

kevo

Silicon Audio


I don't care if V-Vocal is functionally identical to X1.  All I want to see is a version of V-Vocal that doesn't crash with monotonous regularity.  Currently, if I make a V-Vocal edit, I must bounce it straight away.  If I leave live edits in place, I will eventually crash.  The more edits, the more likely the crash.

The real power of V-Vocal is in the manual manipulation.  The auto-correction is average, but as a tool, when used sparingly, it can be very, very good.

V-Vocal is NOT a plugin...
It is a built-in feature of Sonar which is meant to be use on a track and then bounced to track when editing is done.
 
It is not meant to sit in the FX bin (so to say), or to be used on multiple tracks as an effect.
It is also to be used on the smallest section of track as possible.
 
That is the official word from Cakewalk.
 
 

Never did I say it was a plugin, but I think I know what you are getting at.  However, I don't buy what you are saying.  Rendering is destructive editing and nothing else in Sonar makes you render.  How do you go back and tweak something on a phrase in V-Vocal if you have rendered?  I guess you could undo, but what about other things you have done since?  It just doesn't work.


Not good enough.  What you are suggesting is a little like saying "here's your new car.  It's fine just as long as you don't exceed 25 miles an hour.  If you do that, the wheels will fall off and you'll have to jack the car up and re-attach them.


I think V-Vocal is a great tool, but having to jump flaming hoops to avoid a crash is not really acceptable.

Silicon Audio

kevo

Silicon Audio


I don't care if V-Vocal is functionally identical to X1.  All I want to see is a version of V-Vocal that doesn't crash with monotonous regularity.  Currently, if I make a V-Vocal edit, I must bounce it straight away.  If I leave live edits in place, I will eventually crash.  The more edits, the more likely the crash.

The real power of V-Vocal is in the manual manipulation.  The auto-correction is average, but as a tool, when used sparingly, it can be very, very good.

V-Vocal is NOT a plugin...
It is a built-in feature of Sonar which is meant to be use on a track and then bounced to track when editing is done.

It is not meant to sit in the FX bin (so to say), or to be used on multiple tracks as an effect.
It is also to be used on the smallest section of track as possible.

That is the official word from Cakewalk.

Never did I say it was a plugin, but I think I know what you are getting at.  However, I don't buy what you are saying.  Rendering is destructive editing and nothing else in Sonar makes you render.  How do you go back and tweak something on a phrase in V-Vocal if you have rendered?  I guess you could undo, but what about other things you have done since?  It just doesn't work.


Not good enough.  What you are suggesting is a little like saying "here's your new car.  It's fine just as long as you don't exceed 25 miles an hour.  If you do that, the wheels will fall off and you'll have to jack the car up and re-attach them.


I think V-Vocal is a great tool, but having to jump flaming hoops to avoid a crash is not really acceptable.

I'm not selling anything, nor am I suggesting anything. :)
It was actually the users of the forum that found the V-Vocal workaround I mentioned, and the workaround became the official stance of CW years ago.
 
If you watch CW's videos for V-Vocal you will hear it from CW's own mouth.  The workaround I stated is the accepted way to use V-Vocal. (Yes, destructive editing)
 
I did not say it was good, bad or ugly. It is just the way it has been for 7 years.
Whether you *buy* what I am saying or not does not change that fact.
 
I agree with you that we should not have to have the workaround.  But there is not a thing you, I, or anyone else can do to change the fact that the workaround has become THE accepted use for V-Vocal.
 
I cannot see CW ever doing anything further with V-Vocal.  As Bitflipper stated the product was EOL years ago.
 
 

kevo

I'm not selling anything, nor am I suggesting anything. :)
It was actually the users of the forum that found the V-Vocal workaround I mentioned, and the workaround became the official stance of CW years ago.
 
If you watch CW's videos for V-Vocal you will hear it from CW's own mouth.  The workaround I stated is the accepted way to use V-Vocal. (Yes, destructive editing)
 
I did not say it was good, bad or ugly. It is just the way it has been for 7 years.
Whether you *buy* what I am saying or not does not change that fact.
 
I agree with you that we should not have to have the workaround.  But there is not a thing you, I, or anyone else can do to change the fact that the workaround has become THE accepted use for V-Vocal.
 
I cannot see CW ever doing anything further with V-Vocal.  As Bitflipper stated the product was EOL years ago.
 
 

OK, I get you.  I thought you were defending CW's position, but you have explained it well.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.  As I said earlier in this thread, all I want is V-Vocal to be more solid, so that we can work in a non-destructive way without the worry of a crash.


To cut CW some slack, it is a Roland product so up to Roland to fix it, I guess...

Well, it does create a muted clip behind the new v-vocal clip so it's kinda semi-destructive. A long as you don't bounce the muted clip as well with the v-vocal clip, you can always go back to your original and re-tune.

It sounds crapola anyway. It introduces artefacts even with no pitch correction applied at all. I'm holding out for a few one in the future because I love the implementation in SONAR.

It's funny reading this, I've never had a single problem with V-Vocal and have had as many as 60+ active V/V clips in a single project, going back to 6PE under XP32.

And yet, Rapture crashes my entire system regularly.

Weird stuff this I.T. lark.