I recently replaced my trusty Access Virus C with a Virus TI, which promises "total integration" with the host sequencer. In theory, this means that you should be able to control the Virus TI (manage patches, tweak individual sounds, get total setup recall etc) through USB with the supplied Virus Control VST-plugin. However, my experiences with this plugin in Sonar have been less than stellar, as I'm encountering some pretty grave latency issues with it.

Now, it may or may not be my specific setup that's causing the problems - though a number of other Virus TI users are reporting latecy problems as well - but the reply I got from Access support really caught me by surprise:
Apparently, they can't help out, as Sonar isn't on their list of supported sequencers - something I was totally unaware of when I purchased the synth. Instead, they recommend that I use the Virus TI as a regular synth, without the sequencer integration. That gets rid of the latency problems, but this is hardly how I intended to use it when I bought it in the first place.


This is quite sad, as the Virus TI is a great-sounding synth and the total integration element seemed extremely promising. Perhaps it works for other Sonar users and hopefully I'll get it to work in my setup as well at some point, but things don't look to good right now.

So to any Sonar users considering to purchase the Virus TI: Sonar isn't officially supported by Access yet, so for the time being, you're out of luck if you encounter any latency issues with the Virus Control plugin in Sonar.

You can read more about this on the thread: http://virusti.com/forum/index.php?s=1f773f811f91a33bebba3988b8a42bbd&act=ST&f=10&t=390&st=0&#entry3111

(Oh, and if anyone have any suggestions on how to solve the latency issue I'm describing in the Virusti.com-thread, I'd love to hear from you!)

- Asbjoern

Since I still haven't managed to resolve the latency issues with the Virus TI and the Virus Control plugin, I was wondering if any other Sonar/Virus TI users have had any luck - or if anyone (even non TI-users) can offer suggestions as to what I might try to work out the problem.

Quick system specs:

P4 2,8 GHZ
1gb RAM
RME Fireface 800
Running Sonar 5.0.1

The Fireface is running at 11,6msec latency, using WDM-drivers. Sample rate is 44khz/24 bit.

The Virus TI audio and Virus TI midi-interface are both disabled.

Here's what happening:

Virus Control-plugin (VC) installed, delay compensation enabled, main output 1/2 in VC set at USB 1/2:
Noticeable latency when recording midi data, making midi recording practically useless in this mode. Playback is tight.

VC plugin installed, delay compensation enabled, main output 1/2 in VC set at analogue outs 1/2:
No discernable latency when recording midi data. However, playback timing sounds wobbly compared to other modules.

Another severe problem is that when I add, say, an instance of the Albino plugin, this also becomes just as sluggish-feeling as when playing the VC with USB output enabled. I'm assuming this is because of the delay compensation added with the VC-plugin.

If I disable delay compensation for the VC-plugin, things sound fine and latency-free when recording (this goes for all plugins), but all midi data is positioned ahead of where it's supposed to be placed.

If I unplug the USB cable and use the Virus TI as a regular synth with no VC integration, things sound fine and dandy, with no latency issues anywhere. However, I then lose a lot of the functionality that made me buy the synth in the first place.


Any help in solving the above would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
- Asbjoern

Hey Asbjoern---

i dont have a TI, but am seriously considering getting one. a few things.

1.) have you tried using ASIO drivers, and lowering the bitrate from 24 to 16?

2.) the issue definitely follows with delay compensation. when you say the "midi data", you mean you use the notes are placed ahead of where you played them in?

how do other softsynths behave? you noted that albino is also sluggish. is it sluggish from another midi keyboard?

3.) how does freeze work? does it also play ahead or is that bug not fixed yet?

is there a way to turn off the audio io so that ONLY the VC is working and trigger it from another midi keyboard? if the midi out goes via usb then gets echoed back to the usb input to trigger the sounds, then this could be a problem.

i wonder if youve found anyone that is using it successfully with sonar 5?


---------shane

Hi Shane

1: Yeah, I tried that but it unfortunately made no difference. I'm hearing some users having success when using the TI as their primary audio interface - but I certainly prefer my trusty FireFace for this.

2: Yes, it happens exactly as you describe when latency compensation is disabled. Notes are placed ahead of where they were played, and this goes for all plugins in a given project. As for other softsynths when latency compensation is ENABLED, they become just as sluggish-feeling as playing the Virus with the Virus Control-plugin running - again because of the delay compensation, I think. As soon as I remove the VC-plugin, all other plugins become just as responsive as they were before.

3: Freeze still isn't implemented in the current VC-version or firmware. Hopefully, they'll get to that later.

As for turning off the audio, you can select analogue outs from the VC-plugin. That in theory should bypass the delay-adding USB-audio connection, but it makes the Virus playback timing very untight, and sadly, all other softsynths still feel sluggish. The only way the TI can really be used in my setup right now is by disconnecting the USB-connection and not running the VC-plugin. That way, the Virus is just as responsive as any other hardware synth, and all other plugins work just fine as well. Unfortunately, you're then missing out on the great functionality that VC potentially offers - and on what was is major selling point for the Virus TI. So all in all, things are not looking too great right now, and I've yet to hear from any Sonar 5-users using the total integration-features successfully.

- Asbjoern

Read a review in one of the magazines (not sure if it was Keyboard), but the reviewer mentioned problems like the original poster mentioned here. So, it's not your setup that is the problem. There is also a problem with pops and crackles as well with the unit even when used in standalone mode. Now to hear it won't work with Sonar? Major bummer.

I have the VIrus TI and I've found that you can still have total recall of all the patches, all the tweaking etc. if you change the output on the last page of the Virus TI VST. YOu have to turn from USB 1+2 to OUT 1+2, and the latency problem gets better. Having the principal output set to USB 1+2 the audio stream passes from the virus TI to the PC and then is routed to your soundcard outputs. IT is obvious that, until this process is not optimized, latency would be an issue.
Please note that the virus software is still in beta version, they are still working on it. In any case I don't use the USB streaming in SOnar (that gives me the latency issue plus some awful pops and glitches). In Cubase I have only a latency problem, so I can guess that some additional problem is created by Cakewalk VST Adapter (I have Sonar 4.04)

Hi Ceulis

I tried using the analogue outs in the Virus Control plugin, and yes, the recording latency is then fine. Problem is that playback timing is quite untight, and the rest of the plugins are still affected by the delay compensation that the Virus Control plugin adds (ie they sound sluggish). So this approach unfortunately doesn't work well in my setup - but thanks for the suggestion and your input, though!

One trick I heard was to use the USB-output for playback and the analogue outs when you want to record. I really don't think this is the way to go for several reasons. First of all, you have to decide whether you want to record or playback on a particular track (so you essentially have to change the settings each time you want to either playback or record).

Also what do you do when you want to record additional parts to a track which already has midi data on it? You can then either choose a) to have latency while you're recording (if you use USB output) - but stable playback of what's already in the track, or b) have no latency while you're recording (if you use analogue output), but the existing midi data on the track will have bad timing.

Another problem is that this still doesn't solve the latency added by the delay compensation required for the Virus Control-plugin to work.

And if you disable latency compensation for the Virus Control plugin, all midi data recorded for all softsynths sound ok while you're recording - but the actual midi data is positioned ahead of where you played it.

Oh well, this is quite a tough one to solve as things stand now - at least in Sonar.

- Asbjoern

All--- you might want to try the new (1.09) software download at access for the TI plugin. It helped latency on my setup tremendously in Sonar 5.

also, the VC gui is now snappier, just an added bonus.




-----------------shane

Mystp,

Your post is right on. I think Access got their side of things right now in the lastest VirusTI OS, there's no crackles, and all the timing is great. BUT, due to the the high-latency it's unusable in Sonar with delay-compensation on.

I know exactly what you mean about the OTHER plugins also being delayed, I think it's horrible. Who cares that you can set the TI's outputs to non-USB if your other VSTs still have a 1/2 second latency. ;)



I use my TI in stand-alone MIDI mode, and am not happy about this...



-Ido

go and get version 1.2.3 --- seems to solve 99% of the problems.
but no, i still dont use it as a plugin because they tell me it wont do faster than realtime bounces.