• SONAR
  • Virus TI latency issues in Sonar (p.2)
2006/09/04 06:06:08
mystp
Idoben2: Correct, there have been no changes as far as TI Sonar-integration goes, even with the latest update - and that just plain sucks.

soundsubs: Yes, the 1.2.3 update is indeed an improvement for stand-alone usage, but nothing's changed as far as Sonar-integration is concerned.

I just got word back from Access regarding the Sonar issues, and they can't say anything about when the Virus Control (VC)-plugin will be functioning correctly in Sonar. They're currently working on ProTools and Digital Performer integration, apparently.

So to sum up: The TI is working well in stand-alone mode with the latest firmware update. However, the VC plugin (a *major* selling point for the TI) is practically useless in Sonar as it stands, and there's no word on when this will be addressed - so bear that in mind if you're a Sonar user and you are considering the TI.

- Asbjoern
2006/09/05 12:13:39
idoben2
mystp, thanks for being so on-top of this issue.

FYI, I sent a support mail to Cakewalk just-now asking them if Sonar6 will help the situation at all.


-Ido
2006/09/05 16:34:14
mystp
ido: Good to hear - hope you get a positive response from them!

For what it's worth, I spoke to Ron Kuper about it a while back, and he said that he'd talked to Access about the issues. Doesn't seem like anything's come of it yet, but let's hope Cake and Access can work out a solution.
It'd seem somewhat silly to ignore the potential TI sales to the fairly large Sonar user base, after all.

- Asbjoern
2006/09/13 03:03:42
mystp

ORIGINAL: Alex Westner [Cakewalk]

Just to be clear - you guys are running SONAR 5.2?


Hi Alex

Yes, this is running Sonar 5.2
2006/09/13 11:05:59
mystp
Hi Alex

that sounds good - let us know if you need help with testing etc!

- Asbjoern
2006/09/13 12:12:44
soundsubs
Yes, let us know if you have questions or need beta testers!

Make sure you have the latest (1.2.3) drivers for the Virus TI, as these are a definite improvement over previous versions. They have re-enabled the VC for Sonar as well as fixed many instantiation issues.


--------shane
2006/09/26 11:10:18
matman
Folks,

I wanted to assert that in my experience, the Virus TI is working great with Sonar. I am here to share a way of working that can help answer questions raised in this thread and dramatically improve the experience of using Sonar and the Virus TI.

And yes I created many of the presets for the TI, but I'm here as a legitimate Sonar user and not some kind of Access stooge.

The thread begins with a complaint about latency. The latency that's being described is inherent to the design of the TI as a plugin reliant on DSP which is never fewer than 2 hops away via USB. And please, let's not steer this towards a discussion of why firewire or USB 2.0 would be better in this regard, as it is covered well elsewhere: when the TI was being developed, these didn't fit its pricing model.

This "limitation" of inherent latencey is also the source of the Virus' ability to provide the benefits of both hardware and software at the same time, and with the correct techniques described below, I don't t find it limiting at all.

One or more writers then note that the TI is virtually latency-free when using the Virus' analog outs and Virus Control. This is correct.

In response, however, another adds that while this provides great "standalone" results, it seems to not work well in the context of playback against other plugins. This is also correct, in that you can't send delay compensated instructions to the hardware and then monitor with the source of the delay dramatically reduced by a routing shortcut; it makes the rest of the mix feel late!

Between these ideas lies the answer, a hybrid approach as follows: when a user wants to record the TI and hear their performance, they should monitor the current multitimbral part via the analog outs. When they want to hear the synth played back with perfect timing, they should switch back to and monitor via the USB outs.

And, because of an update which was released subsequently to this thread's beginning, this no longer requires ANY menu mousing. In the most recent version of Virus Control, notice the small "D" icon each PART of the multitimbral
stack. This button provides a ONE CLICK shortcut to instantaneously enable the selected part for Direct Monitoring at the analog outs (whilst recording). When the D is switched off, the part reverts to the selected outputs, presumably a delay compensated USB 1+2 pair.

And yes, as the later authors note, certain other small problems are entirely solved with the latest OS (currently 1.23).

I am in fact right now working on a Sonar 5 track which uses the TI for bass, pads, and synth hits against a bed of stylus RMX, DFHS, RMIV, Kontakt, and a suite of guitar related sims and fx. The TI recording perfomance and playback timing of this setup seems just right for me (a 25-year semi-professional musician) and the direct monitoring output option is a godsend when instances of too many other CPU intensive plugins force my overall ASIO latency to an unbearable 256ms. In fact, I often record on the Virus even those parts I wish to be played back in Kontakt or some other instrument... A hidden "bonus" of the TI.

Hope this helps, If this post doesn't seem straightforward enough for you, I would be glad to help answer any specific questions here. I may also put together a tutorial covering this and other TI Power User tips.

-m@









2007/01/29 16:19:12
mystp
Hello again

Thanks everyone for the feedback in this thread - quite an interesting read!

After having left the TI VST plugin alone for quite a while due to the issues I raised in my initial post, I've now had the time to play around with Sonar 6 and the just-released OS v2 for the Virus TI. Things do seem to work a lot better than the first time around, but I'm still not finding the Total Integration part of the Virus TI usable in Sonar. Here's my experience with the TI and Sonar:

1. The TI-VST plugin seems to work okay as far as latency is concerned when it's the only plugin running. Still not very fond of having to decide whether to record or playback on a particular channel (using the D-button on the VST-interface), but at least it's better than the previous way of working.

2. However, once I add any other plugins in addition to the TI-VST, these plugins get a *really* annoying latency added that make them quite painful to play.
In essence, this means that the TI-VST can't really be used with other plugins in use (ie pretty much all the time), at least on my setup.

3. The TI's USB-output sounds lifeless compared to the output from TI's analogue outs to my RME Fireface 800. And unfortunately, you'll need to use the USB-output when using the TI-VST - the analogue outs are just not tight when used in conjunction with the plugin.

4. There's no way of adjusting any of the Virus TI audio driver settings in Sonar. Sonar does not seem to expose the settings part of the driver at all. I'm actually a bit unsure if the Virus TI audio driver is required in relation to the TI-VST, or if it's only relevant when the TI is being used as a regular audio interface.

If anyone has pointers on how to resolve the issues described above, it'd be great hearing them. And m@, a tutorial sounds like an excellent idea!

On a side note: Sonar is still not on Access' list of TI-supported sequencers, so I guess there hasn't been cooperation between the two companies to make Sonar an officially-approved sequencer for the TI yet. So Sonar's state as far as official Access-approval is concerned hasn't changed since I wrote about the issues experienced more than a year ago.

Bottom line for me as it stands is that while TI and Sonar integration has been improved, I'm still not finding it usable for any other scenarios than where the TI-VST is used as the sole plugin, which is, to be honest, extremely rare.

- Asbjoern
2007/01/30 12:03:29
jyoung
Bottom line for me as it stands is that while TI and Sonar integration has been improved, I'm still not finding it usable for any other scenarios than where the TI-VST is used as the sole plugin, which is, to be honest, extremely rare.


An interesting read. I'm a TI Polar owner and your experiences parallel mine, for the most part. In order to be able to use my TI to it's full potential and functionality I ended up using Cubase. There were just too many issues with how Sonar hosted VST instruments and Cubase hosted the TI VST with no problems.
2007/01/30 14:36:39
mystp
Hi Jyoung

sorry to hear you experienced many of the same issues as I did. It's sad to see such an otherwise fine synth not being really usable with its much-touted integration features in Sonar.

I'm really curious as to what came of the testing Cakewalk did once they finally got a hold of a TI back in September last year. Any word from Cake on this?

- Asbjoern
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