He's already got it...

Ya, I was thinking last to add console "glue" or whatever to your processed sound.  But then I would check it first to see if doing its thing first works better.

@

When using the Console Emulation I also make the Pro Channel Post FX bin in some cases (like with old projects where I recorded guitars with an amp sim.)

For new projects I will probably just drop the amp sim plugin in the Pro Channel using an FX Chain, but for old projects I've chosen not to bother. 

The other thing I tend to do "out of order" is adding a Gloss EQ first simply for the high pass and low pass filters. Doing this before the Console Emulation and other plugins means that anything dynamics processing is responding to the movement of the sound I actually care about, rather than the overbearing low end that can be common in live recordings.

Peace,

Tunes

if you want to simulate channel pre-amp, put it first (i'm not a fan of this method). if you want to simulate analog summing (tracks going *into* a mixer or summing box) put it last on each channel you're interested in (you're simulating the inputs of the analog box). then, put the bus version as first on the bus that those channels route to.

(then, slap an SSLComp after that and make your hit record. :-)

with the NLS, putting a little drive (simulating running *hot* into your summing box) on the elements of the drumkit and then into a drumkit bus with a slight amount of drive on the bus console, will help you get that indefinable "crunch" a lot of modern hit records have on the top of their drumkits (the kick, in particular). you can get pretty close to, say, an Orpheus -> D-Box combo with this technique. Waves NLS is amazing in how it emulates this phenomenon, and also in how it adds that sort of subtle, punchy, 3d stereo-field "thing" that analog gear tends to impart -- if that makes any sense. i have yet to put the X2 console emulation through its proper paces, but am eager to.

Well, I have never used Consoles and not really sure how to use them. I've seen tutorials and consoles often sounds great, but most examples are for rock/pop.

I am producing house and chill out mostly, and I guess consoles apply to these genres as well... 

I am going to set up a couple of templates, for dance/house and was considering to use the CE in those. Thus, I wanted to set tha CE first or last... Well. trial and error is often a great way to go, but most people tend to go for "first" in the chain in here.

I put it last in the masters bus. 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

On tracks I would put it last for one reason. If you have plugins in the bin that drastically compress or process the sound you are now amplifying the subtle effects of the console emulation. Probably not something you want in general.

Hmm,
Meaning if you put it first,it would "amplify the subtle effects of the console",because you have plugins in the effects bin,that "drastically compress,or processs the sound"?


I get so confused. 
Bob


Edit: after reading Noel's description,a couple hundred more times I think I get it?

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

On tracks I would put it last for one reason. If you have plugins in the bin that drastically compress or process the sound you are now amplifying the subtle effects of the console emulation. Probably not something you want in general.

Excellent point. This information should be included in the help file. I found it a little weird when I read the help file and it suggested to place them first and yet the CE (Console Emulation) plugs always loaded in as the last module by default. I just finished a remixing a tune from 2006 with CE on every track. I had it placed as the first module and then I read this thread. :) I just moved the CE module to the last in the chain on all my tracks and rendering the mix now. I'm curious if I can notice a difference. 


In any event, the CE is doing something dare I say magical in the midrange. I have never mixed through a high end analog console before but I constantly compare my mixes to ones that have. There has always been something not quite right about the mid range of my mixes until now. Mixing through CE has changed everything for me. The midrange seems to have smoothed out and sits in the mix better. Lows are fuller and warmer and highs are less harsh. Overall it feels easier to get a mix dialed in.  


When I compare the new mix to the one from 2006 it's an amazing difference. I have to take in account my mixing skills hopefully have improved from 6 years ago and my room is much better tuned but I still have to give a lot of credit to CE. The sound is just more open, sort of unveiled. I'm blown away with X2. 


Here are the two mixes if anyone feels like taking a listen. I suggest you download them and have both in a play list so you can quickly A/B the mixes. The differences are much more obvious. The track is called It's Going to be Alright from an album I did in 2006 called 360 Blue. The project was an experiment in the Smooth Jazz genre. The tune features Marion Meadows on Soprano. It was also my first attempt at recording live drums in my living room. The old mix was done in Sonar 6 and mastered by Bob Katz at Digital Domain. The new mix was done in X2 and mastered by me using Ozone 5. 


The old mix:
http://www.nuevo-flamenco.com/files/Alright_Old.mp3



The new mix:
http://www.nuevo-flamenco.com/files/Alright_New.mp3

Thanks Eric for giving those 2 mix examples !

I'm far from being a sound engineer, but listening through Sony 7506 headphones (certainly not a monitor reference as valuable as real monitors, but I know them perfectly), the "old" mix sounds much more open, with a very good balance and a more pleasant sound, in comparison with the New mix which is louder but "harshy", without air : it seems that the cymbals and the crashes are much more tamed in the old mix and that allows the other instruments to breathe.

No offense at all concerning your mastering skills; maybe it depends from your personal taste and decision to confer a particular color to your mix.

But I have to admit that concerning the old mix, I cannot believe it ! What a real treat to hear a track that sounds like that ! It's true that the name of Bob Katz is a big reference in the mastering domain; do you know with which tools he made the mastering process ?


this make me think about the "danger" of having a vast number of plugins which allows to "enhance", embellish, inflate, flattering frequencies and it results with a less natural and more artificial agressive sound. It is also relative to the plug algorithm quality and I hope the new X2 Console Emu does not deliver too much harshness, even at low settings.


Eric, concerning the track "It's going to be alright" ,I find  the composition, the arrangements, melodies,... everything is very nice/ perfect,  and I love it (I am a musician in Gipsy King style bands and I especially appreciate the lead guitar playing :Congratulation for your playing game technique and natural feeling) Anyway bravo for your talent and thank you again for sharing your work.

Pierre

here's a fresh gs comparison compo: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/768444-summing-plugin-shootout.html 

peter434


Thanks Eric for giving those 2 mix examples !

 

Peter,


Thanks for the reply and for taking a listen. I agree with you on the harshness of the new mix. I attribute that to a Tape Saturation plug I was pushing too hard. I disabled it and rendered a new mix. If you have time take a listen to the 3rd mix and compare that one to the BK mastered mixed. The volume levels should be a little closer now as well. 


http://www.nuevo-flamenco.com/files/Alright_3.mp3



Thanks again!