Bill Jackson [Cakewalk
]

Thanks for your feedback.  I'm sorry you feel that way.  However, I urge you to let the new stuff sink in a bit.  We put a lot of thought and research into the changes and feel confident that they make a powerful cumulative difference.  Maybe once you use X2 for a week or so, try moving back to X1 and you may see that X2 is much more ergonomic and intuitive.   

I think that's good advice that parallels my experience with X1. Like many, I installed X1 side-by-side with 8.5 so I could revert to a familiar environment while learning X1. I found that even with X1's considerable "teething pains," when I went back to 8.5 I didn't work as efficiently, and eventually I just uninstalled 8.5 because I never used it.

For me, the things they've added are pretty huge. It's about the synergy of them all working together (e.g., automation lanes and right-click lasso -- finally!).

The stuff they've focused on is very tactical (and that's a good thing). They focused on key workflow features other DAWs have had for some time. That sounds slightly negative, but wait, look where that puts Sonar! X2 has now effectively leap-frogged over many other DAWs when you compare some key, modern-requirements bullet-points.

First, a few meat-and-potato examples of showstoppers they used to have in X1 that are now addressed with X2 (missing features that if you were on another DAW you would not have switched to Sonar):
- Automation lanes. Huge. (Sonar needs to remove the arbitrary height limit on them though. Some of us need to dig deep into automation and the lane needs to be at least twice the height for this, imho. You'll need this for resolution-independent displays, too -- for future-proofing [Apple Retina display clones for PC are coming soon].)
- Right-click lasso selection of clips and automation break-points. This is huge. For many modern music styles, you would use this for everything you do in a session. This, in synergy with automation lanes, is so key to all modern DAW workflows.
- Selection mirroring between track and console. What a relief this is! Every DAW that I'm aware of did this. Again, you bump into this every second of your time in the DAW (all music styles on this one).
- Header of clip is clearly for dragging. This is super nice. Not all DAWs have this clarity. For those of us that use many apps, this is welcome. Sonar did not approach this intuitively, before.

Now a few showstoppers that *other* DAWs are faced with now that they can't point to the key (above) deficiencies that were in X1: 
- Cubase: eight insert limitation (only six of them freezable, so *six* inserts for all intent and purpose). I can tell you for EDM music styles this is HUGE. Look at some Morgan Page (award-winning EDM producer) videos on youtube and notice over a dozen creative effect inserts on many tracks. This is the norm, now. *crosses Cubase off my list* Also, Cubase does not have a full 64bit signal path. (it's ironic that the inventor of VST doesn't do VST right. also, Cubase is a crash-factory). Sonar has unlimited inserts effects, full 64bit signal path and does not crash like Cubase does.     
- Protools: in the native version the effect in/outs are not on a 64bit signal path. No direct VST support. *crosses of list -- i'm not using a plugin to load plugins* Sonar has a full 64 bit signal path even for its effects (I'm pretty sure?) and of course supports VST.    
- Digital Performer: even in 2012, they still don't have a linked midi clip type capability! *crosses off my list, and wtf MOTU?!* (get your act together, MOTU! I had this on drum machines in the 80's!). Sonar has linked clips (though a visual indicator of linked clips would be nice [Reaper does this best]). 
- Reaper: its "tools" approach requires too much keyboard interplay. It's snap/grid is not very sophisticated. No Smart Tools, here. Sonar has a really nice snap/grid set of tools in X2, even X1 beats Reaper on this point.     
- How many DAWs other than Ableton Live have anything approaching "The Grid" for doing live and/or time-unit-based remxing? Thank you. Clearly the future (and present) for many of us in electronic music genres. Sonar is the only DAW that is a DAW first and foremost, but that also has Ableton type features. That's pretty cool.

Sonar is positioned well to mop up the floor with only a few more items (core items, not bells and whistles), as i see it:
- Pre-buffer-optimized audio engine (Reaper does this best).
- True automation beizier curves (Logic does this best)
- N-deep nested folders for tracks and buses (Reaper does this best).
- Batch freeze.
- Area for creating song parts and display them in a prominent way (Cubase does this best and let's you rearrange them in a very elegant way).

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Hi, Craig. Ultimately that was my experience with X1, too. I hope to have a similar experience with x2.

Jalcide, thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response. I'm not planning on jumping ship; I was just hoping for a little more instant gratification, but, as has already been suggested, it's only been a few days - I haven't even completed my first full song with it. It's entirely possible I'm being premature in my reaction. I hope that's the case.

Thanks for all your input, Everybody. Glad to hear so many of you are already having good experiences. I will keep an open mind as I continue to use X2 and hope to be among your ranks soon.

-Ben

This version is a refinement with added features and added value. I just did a freeze of a song or those parts with soft synths. It was faster. I had very little trouble with X1 from day one. This version is tighter, sweeter and better looking. 

I was playing with the PRV and did a few edits on a song last night. I didn't realize until later I did the edits with no reference to any docs just went in there and did them. It was that easy. Its never been that simple before. Yes I did look at the webinar and the new vid for the transition but I often need to see a vid more than once to grasp anything. The smart tool improvement is a major asset to any user.


Is this software perfect? No. But its darn close.  BTW I had to reinstall the plugins because on a song I just froze one of the synths didn't load. The reinstall took care of that. I did not reinstall X2. Its been fine.

One question; Is there a way to run the install without starting it from part 1?

Hi, John. When you run the install from part 1, it unzips all the files to a temp folder. I don't remember the specific path; maybe someone from Cakewalk can chime in about exactly where it is. If you then copy those files out of that folder before you close the installer, the copies will not be deleted and you won't have to go through the unzipping process every time you want to run the installer, because you'll now have the setup.exe itself. Hope this makes sense.

You can get to where we create the temp folder by typing WIN+R to open the run command, and typing %TMP%.  Then hit enter.  A "SONAR X2 Producer" folder will show up.  But like Benjamin said, it will be removed when the installer exits.  So copy it out before then.

IDK, man. If you haven't watched the vid Seth posted earlier you should. Lotso spanky stuff here -------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5z9BKWD-I

The Part 1 to Part 4 files are executable archives that you can unzip with win zip or Winrar.
Just right click and select where you want to unzip them to.
You'll end up with 
Setup.exe and 10 setup*.bin files.
You then will have you own installation files that you can run just by clicking setup and won't have to wait for all the files to decompress.

benjaminfrog


Hi, John. When you run the install from part 1, it unzips all the files to a temp folder. I don't remember the specific path; maybe someone from Cakewalk can chime in about exactly where it is. If you then copy those files out of that folder before you close the installer, the copies will not be deleted and you won't have to go through the unzipping process every time you want to run the installer, because you'll now have the setup.exe itself. Hope this makes sense.

Thanks Ben I did know that but I have a ton of temp folders. I have had this Vista for a lot of years. I was hoping for a nice road map to the file sitting in a nice place all by itself and sort of shining.

You can get to where we create the temp folder by typing WIN+R to open the run command, and typing %TMP%.  Then hit enter.  A "SONAR X2 Producer" folder will show up.  But like Benjamin said, it will be removed when the installer exits.  So copy it out before then.

Thanks Bill. On the other hand maybe I will leave it as it is. This is a good argument for getting the DVDs.

BTW I also thank you for your being here.  Lets make it a habit.

mudgel


The Part 1 to Part 4 files are executable archives that you can unzip with win zip or Winrar.
Just right click and select where you want to unzip them to.
You'll end up with 
Setup.exe and 10 setup*.bin files.
You then will have you own installation files that you can run just by clicking setup and won't have to wait for all the files to decompress.

Tharts it!!! Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you Mudgel. It really is good to have you back! Not that you went anywhere just you haven't been around as much.