Jalcide


For me, the things they've added are pretty huge. It's about the synergy of them all working together (e.g., automation lanes and right-click lasso -- finally!).

The stuff they've focused on is very tactical (and that's a good thing). They focused on key workflow features other DAWs have had for some time. That sounds slightly negative, but wait, look where that puts Sonar! X2 has now effectively leap-frogged over many other DAWs when you compare some key, modern-requirements bullet-points.

First, a few meat-and-potato examples of showstoppers they used to have in X1 that are now addressed with X2 (missing features that if you were on another DAW you would not have switched to Sonar):
- Automation lanes. Huge. (Sonar needs to remove the arbitrary height limit on them though. Some of us need to dig deep into automation and the lane needs to be at least twice the height for this, imho. You'll need this for resolution-independent displays, too -- for future-proofing [Apple Retina display clones for PC are coming soon].)
- Right-click lasso selection of clips and automation break-points. This is huge. For many modern music styles, you would use this for everything you do in a session. This, in synergy with automation lanes, is so key to all modern DAW workflows.
- Selection mirroring between track and console. What a relief this is! Every DAW that I'm aware of did this. Again, you bump into this every second of your time in the DAW (all music styles on this one).
- Header of clip is clearly for dragging. This is super nice. Not all DAWs have this clarity. For those of us that use many apps, this is welcome. Sonar did not approach this intuitively, before.

Now a few showstoppers that *other* DAWs are faced with now that they can't point to the key (above) deficiencies that were in X1: 
- Cubase: eight insert limitation (only six of them freezable, so *six* inserts for all intent and purpose). I can tell you for EDM music styles this is HUGE. Look at some Morgan Page (award-winning EDM producer) videos on youtube and notice over a dozen creative effect inserts on many tracks. This is the norm, now. *crosses Cubase off my list* Also, Cubase does not have a full 64bit signal path. (it's ironic that the inventor of VST doesn't do VST right. also, Cubase is a crash-factory). Sonar has unlimited inserts effects, full 64bit signal path and does not crash like Cubase does.     
- Protools: in the native version the effect in/outs are not on a 64bit signal path. No direct VST support. *crosses of list -- i'm not using a plugin to load plugins* Sonar has a full 64 bit signal path even for its effects (I'm pretty sure?) and of course supports VST.    
- Digital Performer: even in 2012, they still don't have a linked midi clip type capability! *crosses off my list, and wtf MOTU?!* (get your act together, MOTU! I had this on drum machines in the 80's!). Sonar has linked clips (though a visual indicator of linked clips would be nice [Reaper does this best]). 
- Reaper: its "tools" approach requires too much keyboard interplay. It's snap/grid is not very sophisticated. No Smart Tools, here. Sonar has a really nice snap/grid set of tools in X2, even X1 beats Reaper on this point.     
- How many DAWs other than Ableton Live have anything approaching "The Grid" for doing live and/or time-unit-based remxing? Thank you. Clearly the future (and present) for many of us in electronic music genres. Sonar is the only DAW that is a DAW first and foremost, but that also has Ableton type features. That's pretty cool.

Sonar is positioned well to mop up the floor with only a few more items (core items, not bells and whistles), as i see it:
- Pre-buffer-optimized audio engine (Reaper does this best).
- True automation beizier curves (Logic does this best)
- N-deep nested folders for tracks and buses (Reaper does this best).
- Batch freeze.
- Area for creating song parts and display them in a prominent way (Cubase does this best and let's you rearrange them in a very elegant way).

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Thank You Jalcide!
This is the information[even if some of which I don't understand yet]Iv'e been trying to find out for a while now[quite a while]-what are the REAL pro's/con's of the other Daws,compared to Sonar.
Cheers
Bob


Edit: BTW the"title"of this thread is Absurd!-"X2 Underwhelming"its annoying to say thanks to an enterprising new forum member,whilst simultaneously bringing the stupid thread title more attention.

bobguitkillerleft


Edit: BTW the"title"of this thread is Absurd!

Agreed :(.  I considered changing it, but figured that would be a bit heavy-handed.  Mr. Benjamin, you're welcome to, or to permit me to...

I haven't got the money to move forward with this purchase just yet but that could change in a month or so and then I will do it but if I had to rate the things I am hearing about X2 this sounds like a great upgrade. Of course I'm a guitarist and the breverb and th2 addition makes it worth getting for me. 10 amps is a lot of variation plus they can be morphed as well. That's what Amplitube and guitar rig should have done for us. The improvements in the engine and the PC make it a no brainer plus then we also get the full version of rapture so I'd say they will have a tough time topping this upgrade in the future. Maybe next they will work on helping us use sonar as a live performance tool as well. They could maybe add in some Roland synth content next and some roland amp sim magic but I'll leave that to the future. I still plan on getting the upgrade for sonar x2 but there are other purchases I need to make first. New headphones, maybe a new guitar and some drum and bass software like prominy or SD2. I need to have that to create realistic backing tracks.

Bill Jackson [Cakewalk
]

bobguitkillerleft


Edit: BTW the"title"of this thread is Absurd!-"X2 Underwhelming"its annoying to say thanks to an enterprising new forum member,whilst simultaneously bringing the stupid thread title more attention.

Agreed :(.  I considered changing it, but figured that would be a bit heavy-handed.  Mr. Benjamin, you're welcome to, or to permit me to...

And Mr. Benjamin has gone offline - If I was admin, I'd be tempted to just change it.
But I'm happy being heavy handed.

It made me chuckle a bit when I saw the title.

Anyone underwhelmed should just check the new vid that Seth put up.

This IS a huge improvement, as many are pointing out.

I've had one crash, and a slightly glitchy display ... until I updated my video driver.
Now it's smooth as silk.

Cheers - Cliff

Bill Jackson [Cakewalk
]

bobguitkillerleft


Edit: BTW the"title"of this thread is Absurd!-"X2 Underwhelming"its annoying to say thanks to an enterprising new forum member,whilst simultaneously bringing the stupid thread title more attention.

Agreed :(.  I considered changing it, but figured that would be a bit heavy-handed.  Mr. Benjamin, you're welcome to, or to permit me to...

I am a very strong supporter of X1/X2. If you read me at all you know I have been very consistent in my support. I hate censorship. It goes against my American roots. If the OP wants to change the title that is fine if a CW person does it would not go over well with me. I know CW has every right to do it but tolerance here may pay off huge dividends later.  

Keep in mind I posted here in rebuttal to the title. Without it the thread has no meaning. You may get some that find fault with X2 but I think those that like it will out number those to such a degree that this thread may prove useful as an ad.

One thing that always works in the long term is truth.

Im not blown away buy the updates ,censorship !! will kill the form ..do you think Freddie and other will be returning soon ? If i have time i will try the new x-2 ..Jon till then happy tracking !!

Hi, Folks. I'm happy to change the title. I certainly don't want to turn any new folks off to the product. I'm still very much in love with Sonar.

John

mudgel


The Part 1 to Part 4 files are executable archives that you can unzip with win zip or Winrar.
Just right click and select where you want to unzip them to.
You'll end up with 
Setup.exe and 10 setup*.bin files.
You then will have you own installation files that you can run just by clicking setup and won't have to wait for all the files to decompress.

Tharts it!!! Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you Mudgel. It really is good to have you back! Not that you went anywhere just you haven't been around as much.

That's what I was hoping to find too...!  I searched all over for the TMP directory so I could save the "expanded" files.  But I did it AFTER the installer had closed....DANG IT :) .

I have to run the installer again anyway....I like having both 32 and 64 bit installed....just have the 64 bit now.  I will save the files in the TMP folder before the installer closes this time...!

I believe you can extract the files from the installers with 7-zip.

That would probably be easier scook...then I can just install the 32 bit version from that...if I really decide to.  I have some waves plugs that won't work in the 64 bit version.  But then again...there are so many plugs that came with X1 and X2, and third party for that matter that work with 64 bit...I may not mess with the 32 bit version.

I've already burned the 4 installation parts to DVDs...but I'd much rather have the expanded files instead, in case I have a problem with my PC and need to re-install.