2012/09/17 12:52:04
evansmalley
Hey fogaudio- 

That would be fine if it was WITHIN the app, not AFTER the master/whatever out. You want to be able to turn off Vari-Pitch and have ALL tracks tuned to the pitch within the app.
2012/09/17 13:05:22
evansmalley
Hey Steve C-
I was thinking of how to describe the essential usefulness- of what you were saying seemed not-so-useful- when I realized you had a good point! Actually, I never thought of it before- but wouldn't it be great if you had an easy way to adjust TEMPO- independent of Pitch- easily? 

Just wanted to slow down- or speed up- your song or a section of your song? You can, WITH MIDI ONLY- easy. But not WITH all the rest of your audio tracks! Great point! You probably won't even care! 

Great point, I think! But also being able to tune your song to an overdub (real) instrument with one slider is truly an essential part of running a commercial studio, I think. 
2012/09/17 13:35:54
stevec
Yeah, exactly.   Independent control would be ideal, but that's not really what varispeed is, at least in the traditional sense.
 
Somewhere along the line the concept of adjusting the sample rate on-the-fly was mentioned, but wouldn't that affect both pitch and tempo?   I haven't used my Reaper demo in a while so I don't recall whether its Varispeed does that.
 
2012/09/17 13:41:58
backwoods
Living Room Rocker had the nice idea that maybe Sonar R-mix had some of these possibilities as the full VST does. Looking at the Cakewalk Blog "sneak peek" it appears the vari speed sliders are absent.



2012/09/17 13:54:02
FogAudio
"That would be fine if it was WITHIN the app, not AFTER the master/whatever out. You want to be able to turn off Vari-Pitch and have ALL tracks tuned to the pitch within the app."

Right, I wasn't thinking time-stretching too (true varispeed) which would require a more thorough integration into Sonar's core audio path.

Also, apologies that I hadn't realized how *many* posts there are already on all of this. I haven't been here in a long time and just signed back in (after probably years of absence). In any event, to be completely off-topic, apparently putting this forum view prefence from flat to hierarchical completely masks how many posts a thread has! I'm sure I repeated what's already been said.
2012/09/17 19:30:14
The Maillard Reaction
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2012/09/17 23:36:12
yorolpal
I'm not sure what you're saying here...so are you saying that grand pianos can't be properly tuned?  Or twelve string guitars?  Or even Rhodes pianos?  I used to use a strobotuner to tune mine just fine.  My B3 was in tune as well.  Or am I off the mark here?
2012/09/17 23:43:42
evansmalley
hey yorolpal! 
Isn't it WAY easier to one-slider-tune the song to the grand piano than to physically tune ALL those dang strings to a song? Same with the other instruments- every tine on a Rhodes,  all the reeds on an accordion- etc. That's the suggestion. 

Sometimes it's just a few cents. But freedom... that's a buck .05

2012/09/18 01:06:30
stevec
I never realized it was that common for so many instruments to not be tuned to 440.   Particularly pianos, accordians, organs, and 12 string guitars (really?).   I guess these common instruments can never be played live in an ensemble.
 
But things like pipe organs, percussion and simple wind instruments - yeah, having no "tunability" makes it difficult to do anything if they weren't tuned to 440 during manufacturing.   Which honestly does seem like an odd choice in the 21st century, though for older instruments...
 
2012/09/18 02:06:23
SToons
stevec


I never realized it was that common for so many instruments to not be tuned to 440.   Particularly pianos, accordians, organs, and 12 string guitars (really?).   I guess these common instruments can never be played live in an ensemble.
 
But things like pipe organs, percussion and simple wind instruments - yeah, having no "tunability" makes it difficult to do anything if they weren't tuned to 440 during manufacturing.   Which honestly does seem like an odd choice in the 21st century, though for older instruments...
 

Twelve-string guitars are often tuned down one semi-tone. Twelve strings put alot of tension on the neck so many players opt for tuning lower to avoid warping. This can also be tied in to string thickness - I use extremely heavy strings on most of my guitars, other players find it brutal. I call it tone. It's often easier for an engineer to accomodate a 12-string if they can Varispeed. And I know that many will want to chime in with all the possible "fixes" but there are many reasons the Varispeed is easier. When a customer is footing the bill it's in your best interests to satisfy them as quickly and painlessly as possible. Also it's not necessarily the best thing to try and convince an "artiste" that they should capo or tune alternately. Sometimes the easiet solution is Varispeed.
 
If you record a piano on location, or even one that has been rolled between studios (Studio A to Studio C) a few times then you often do not have the time nor the luxury of tuning the piano before a session. Welcome to life in the professional fast lane.
 
Most engineers and studios are always on the clock. The client is paying. Should they pay $xxx an hour while you call in a piano tuner at 3:00 AM? Not when you can use Varispeed. Ditto for many of the above listed instruments. Time is money. Tuning can be a fairly time consuming issue with some instruments.
 
So you tell the band to make sure the "insert ethnic instrument here" is tuned when they show up. It isn't. How do you deal with the issue? Lecture them and force them to tune while you lose a client? Or accomodate them and make them smile.
 
Sometimes a band will want to record bed tracks simulataneously. You may tell them a thousand times to tune up, and to use electronic (or better yet, strobe) tuners, but when you sit down to record that isn't always the case. Sometimes they have tuned "together" but it's not perfecftly on pitch at A440. So you end up with a great take only to realize, after the fact, that they are tuned slightly off. Now when you roll in the perfectly tuned piano you have a problem. Varispeed can be the easiest solution.
 
Some people deliberately like their instruments tuned slightly off of A440 for timbre preferance. And some do it for quasi-spiritual reasons:
http://www.528records.com/
Either way, if you want to incorporate a "fixed pitch" instrument into this mix, like the piano that was in fact just tuned, then Varispeed makes the job quicker and easier.
 
Simple wind instruments, old analog synths...both are among many 21st century instruments that may well have been in "perfect" tuning when manufactured but have "drifted" over time. Acoustic and analog instruments are prone to change over time, that unique quality is part of what makes them special. Wood dries and expands. Oscillators drift. So you deal with it.
 
The vocalist shows up for the third straight day of tracking. The band purchased a block of ten days and this is this last day, no exceptions. Eighty percent of the vocals are recorded but today, as the vocalist is starting to lose it after two heavy days of recording, the only way they are gonna pull off all the vocals is to finish the parts singing one half step lower.
 
Those are a few examples. And please, let's not repeat all the workarounds again.
 
The fact here is that often if some members of the forum don't see immediate personal use then the request is questioned, scrutinized, ridiculed, opposed...it shouldn't always be the responsibility of a poster making a request to have to justify the requests with long-winded explanations that are often not read in their entirety nor interpreted correctly. Trying to justify a request to someone who doesn't need it or doesn't understand it is one of the bigger hastles on this forum.
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