2012/09/15 21:49:16
Jonbouy
Varispeed might be old hat to a tape whirring round but in the digital domain it's a fairly new thing.
 
I benefit from Varispeed using tools that are capable of it and there are many benefits, tuning an instrument that is in a different tuning isn't anything I've used it for though.  Pitch shifting can be easily done in stuff like Audacity with reasonable success for example which is available for free. 
 
Where 'varispeed' comes into it's own for me is when I want to record a phrase which I'm not capable of playing at the required tempo so I can record it slower and then increase the tempo to fit.  Also it's useful for the disassembly of a complicated part when you just want to hear something at the right pitch but at a slower speed.  Also frankly there are times when I've got a take down but realise the actual song could be improved by nudging it a few BPM either way, no problem all the audio and midi stay in sync.  Being able to make subtle tempo changes between verses and choruses also becomes possible.
 
True varispeed in a digital DAW is not an insignificant thing to include as it either involves developing your own technology to do it or licensing stuff that already exists both avenues are not without relatively large costs.  There are tools that already do the job well, I use them daily so really to warrant that cost there must be an adequate return on the investment of incorporating it.
 
So who wants it in Sonar? 
 
 
I kinda get the frustration around the excuses and workarounds though, there's at least one workaround provided here by someone that wouldn't dream of following his own recipe when he has other more effective options available to him.  That kind of irks me too, it kind of smacks of keeping folk ignorant to the fact there are some really good solutions out there already.
 
It's that old, old thing though there's never been one DAW that does it all, they all have strengths and weaknesses and it's still a case of marrying them up to get the best working relationship you can.
 
2012/09/15 21:57:46
SteveStrummerUK
Jonbouy


Where 'varispeed' comes into it's own for me is when I want to record a phrase which I'm not capable of playing at the required tempo so I can record it slower and then increase the tempo to fit.  

I simply must gave this magical enchanted tool...
 
 
I too could then appear to be a guitar god of some repute
 
 
2012/09/15 22:04:11
Jonbouy
SteveStrummerUK


Jonbouy


Where 'varispeed' comes into it's own for me is when I want to record a phrase which I'm not capable of playing at the required tempo so I can record it slower and then increase the tempo to fit.  

I simply must gave this magical enchanted tool...
 
 
I too could then appear to be a guitar god of some repute
 
 

Exactly, played at 80 bpm it sounds like a viennese waltz at 150 it's a shred...
 
Hank Marvin does Van Halen...lol
2012/09/15 22:11:39
Mooch4056
Van Halen aint funny anymore ....unless you listen to hot for teacher at 278 beats per minute then I laugh my buttocks off
2012/09/15 22:13:57
Jonbouy
I don't really get the tuning thing though as if you are using some traditional instrument in an ensemble piece the other musicians would be playing in a key that suits, no?
 
How do these guys turn up and play anywhere otherwise?
 
I'm baffled by that one.  It must be a legendary Nashville thing that I've not come across before. 
If it's out of tune then a pitch shifting application like V-Vocal IS what you need.
2012/09/15 22:16:08
bapu
WTH are Jonbouy and Straummy doing up at 3 Am?
2012/09/15 22:20:06
Jonbouy
bapu


WTH are Jonbouy and Straummy doing up at 3 Am?


Who are you, the Police?
2012/09/15 22:24:55
The Maillard Reaction
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2012/09/15 22:34:18
Anderton
Jeff Evans


Studio One has got a great pitch transposing algorithm. Any audio event on a track can be pitched up and down 2 octaves folks. Yes + 24 or - 24 semitones and it all sounds great so it can be done. And it is also very easily put back too with no side effects. You are NOT processing the audio in any way. Yes you get the chipmunk effect etc but that is what happens with tape too. It transposes much more than what Craig is suggesting in Sonar only being a semitone as useful. 

In this situation the timing remains the same but that is easily stretched too if you want it to be and it does that very well too. But in fact it is rather better to leave the timing alone and alter the pitch instead.

This is a far cry from all the complexity that Mike has started this thread with. It does not have to be that hard and it is not in Studio One. Just alter the transposition, do your thing, put it back and transpose the new track up or down to match the original pitch of the music. Simple as that.

Just to clarify - the only reason I mentioned a one semitone shift with Sonar for my voice or for the guitar is because artistically speaking, with transposing my voice up any more it ends up sounding like a little girl, and transposing down further with guitar makes it muddy.
 
The audio transposition algorithm in Sonar is very effective with wide stretches. In one of my advanced workshop videos, I created a 12-string guitar and Nashville turning by processing a guitar's hex outputs with Sonar's transposition algorithm. The sound was totally convincing, and it required octave shifts. I can't recall if I showed my 18-string guitar trick where I add in lower strings transposed down an octave for bass, but that's way cool too.
 
I've done this both with Studio One Pro and Sonar, in fact when I demoed the 12-string and Nashville tuning techniques at PreSonuSphere last year, I got a standing ovation because it sounds so cool .
 
However, there are some significant differences between the two. The SOP algorithm is real time, whereas the one in Sonar is offline. Sonar's algorithm has better fidelity/quality, but the tradeoff is you have to appply the processing. With SOP, you get more artifacts, but you don't have to wait. The other difference is Sonar transposes in semitones, while SOP can also do cents. 99% of the time for what I do (I don't record dulcimers!) semitones handle what I need. 
 
I still think that in Mike's scenario of using Sonar, a zPlane elastique plug-in on the master bus is the simplest solution. Tune master out to out-of-tune instrument, record, insert zPlane in recorded track, change pitch by equal and opposite amount. Done.
2012/09/15 22:35:48
Jonbouy
Wait lets see, Mike
 
It's only recreational, but it has to be perfect.
 
Pitch correction would work better than varispeed, but this is an argument for the case for varispeed.
 
Am I following correctly?
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