I did understand the first post right away - probably because I work the same way.

An "instrument track" in Sonar is PER DEFINITION a merged audio-midi-combination. What we would like to have: more than one "instrument track" assigned to a multitimbral synth whereas each "instrument track" uses a different output of that very synth.

I don't work with instrument tracks right now because of at least two other flaws (one is related to a VS-700c bug). So sadly I am overwhelmed by the amount of 'unmerged' audio-midi track combinations in my projects.


Since you can always have seperate audio and midi tracks, such an implementation would automatically become an option (rather than mandatory).

arachnaut

toshiroo

thanks again for your time  ok but how do u compose your midi events with these audio tracks ?? 
it wants midi , so u need to add the midi tracks ...
it doesnt change what I wanted, 
maybe u didn't understand what i wanted lol

I suppose I don't follow you.


I compose one MIDI track per Kontakt instrument, just like any other instrument track. One track at a time.

Kontakt is multi-core aware, though, I just checked - so having everything in one instance is probably not a big deal.

yes u didnt follow me :p
i don't want in the track view "midi track" + "audio track" for one vst instrument :)
AND
I don't like "instrument track" coz it doesn't support multi audi output ( one kontakt with different instruments for different audio outputs)


to be clear, and sorry to mention these daws, I want "instrument track" like in cubase  and studio one.  
Sorry i can't explain better, and i didn't expect it to be complicated to explain
maybe my english or the bad technique words I used ...

Loptec

arachnaut

toshiroo

thanks again for your time  ok but how do u compose your midi events with these audio tracks ?? 
it wants midi , so u need to add the midi tracks ...
it doesnt change what I wanted, 
maybe u didn't understand what i wanted lol

I suppose I don't follow you.


I compose one MIDI track per Kontakt instrument, just like any other instrument track. One track at a time.

Kontakt is multi-core aware, though, I just checked - so having everything in one instance is probably not a big deal.

What I think he wants is this:

• One instrument track with a merged audio-MIDI-track for the first instrument in Kontakt
• A second merged audio-MIDI-track for the next output in the same instance of Kontakt

As I'm sure you know, this isn't possible today.. But apparently (maybe) will be in the future, according to Bill =)

Yes, but I would say this way

• One instrument track with a merged audio-MIDI-track for the first instrument in Kontakt
• Another instrument track for the next output in the same instance of Kontakt
  
  but yes u got it !

I recorded a quick video for those who don't get what I request 
I hope it's allowed to show another daw, I don't try to make ads or whatever.
If it's a problem I will remove the link ... ( the most important is that Bill understood )
but it's the good way to show how it's  easy to get that style of instrument track 

http://youtu.be/-aoaPLaMtCM


Sorry for the bad sound but it's ok.

So it s what I mean,  two instrument tracks connected to distinct audio strips  for one vst in the rack :)

And again , I am not saying that it should replace the midi track , I just talk about the flexibility of the instrument track for those who use it.

thanks all for your interest and help ! 
Great forum 
I hope to be one of yours soon ;)  ... a new Sonarist we say ? 

JoseC.


Horses for courses. I prefer having separate midi and audio tracks, for several reasons. First of all, because I am used to work with both hardware and software synths. I can change output data (midi)  routing from a software synth to hardware and back, clone tracks and whatever, much easily that way, and I do not have to touch the input (audio) tracks at all. Each synth has its own audio track always, software synths from the synth rack, hardware from their own soundcard input, and that stays that way in the console. Console shows only audio tracks, and I can group tracks in track view as it better suits me. I understand what toshiroo wants, and I am all for having one more option, but I do not find having distinct tracks messy at all, quite the opposite.

+1..
 
I simply dont understand the point of such a request.. you can, right now
 
a)  instantiate Kontakt multiple times, once per instrument, each with simple instrument track (one track per instrument);
b) instantiate Kontakt multiple times, once per instrument with first synth output+ midi source (2 tracks per instrument)
b) instantiate Kontakt with 4 or 8 stereo outs, and add midi channels as you see fit per instrument or sets of instruments..
 
if we are discussing simply the time it takes to hide tracks in a folder then this is a waste of a page of posts :)

Why then use instrument tracks in the first place? Some people actually use them. And there is no use in hiding, because those people need access to both parts of them (audio AND midi), but if they are in the same place (combined in one track) access is easier and slimmer.

So instrument tracks are a used feature - why not make them usable with multitimbral synths?


I don't know, how others work, but I have, let's say, 10 Instruments. If you have all of them in one Kontakt instance or let's say in a Vienna Ensemble Pro instance, you can't use Sonar's instrument tracks.

So each instrument has 2 tracks, which are named "Piano MIDI" and "Piano AUDIO" ... 20 Tracks. If you work with the VS-700c console ... well space is heavily wasted and you keep switching banks. No sense in hiding, because you need MIDI and AUDIO. Sometimes you hit the wrong track (MIDI instead of AUDIO) ...


All of that could be really simple with multitimbral-ready instrument tracks.

I like the idea...  It would also be nice to be able to add an instrument track after the fact too, pointing to that existing synth instance.
 
I'd imagine the same end result could be accomplished manually through track and folder managment, but the same could be said about Bounce vs. Freeze.   Pause button anyone?   
 

The way I understand it is one can use a simple instrument track for one MIDI track and one audio track. Its meant to be a convenient way to use a single voice synth in Sonar.

It was never meant to work on multiple voice synths like Kontakt or a drum synth.

I never use simple instrument tracks. They are too limiting. But that was their reason for being, simplicity.

The flexibility offered by using MIDI tracks and separate audio tracks should not be altered. 

Seems very simple though. The audio part of the instrument track is nothing else but an audio track with an input. That is set to the first two outputs of the synth and cannot be changed - this and the correspondend MIDI-Channel are the only values, that we would like to be able to change.

Nothing else changes, no flexibility will be lost.

Was it never meant to work on multiple voice synths? I'm sure this was just overlooked. That's no question of design. It's just that nowadays those 'mini-hosts' like Kontakt or Vienna Ensemble Pro host multiple instruments.

Of course you could open a seperate Kontakt instance for each instrument you would like to have an instrument track for. But that makes the 'host capabilities' of Kontakt or VEP kind of useless. And what a waste of memory.

Grent


Seems very simple though. The audio part of the instrument track is nothing else but an audio track with an input. That is set to the first two outputs of the synth and cannot be changed - this is the only value, that we would like to be able to change.

Nothing else changes, no flexibility will be lost.

Was it never meant to work on multiple voice synths? I'm sure this was just overlooked. That's no question of design. It's just that nowadays those 'mini-hosts' like Kontakt or Vienna Ensemble Pro host multiple instruments.

Of course you could open a seperate Kontakt instance for each instrument you would like to have an instrument track for. But that makes the 'host capabilities' of Kontakt or VEP kind of useless. And what a waste of memory.

They always have(had multiple outs). Dim Pro for example doesn't.  I don't see the point of opening many Kontakts for each simple instrument track. That is a waste of computer resources.

Why not open a dozen drum synths for a MIDI drum track?