bgcat57


John: Since the Motif XF8 is fairly new (so I'm not cash rich now) and has 2 GB flash memory, I can use that and tweak things there. I'm reticent about buying yet more software. If money were no limitation, I'd get $10 Gold set, but then I'd probably have to spend a year setting it up. I Do have Dimension Pro so that's already done. With almost 70 tracks, every instrument doesn't have to be perfect, but when you get to the lightly scored sections, you have to be far more diligent about sound. One of the two primary reasons for so many tracks is that i can control in the (at the time) stereo field. When every instrument has it's own position, the sound is far more realistic. Clustering them together eliminates that. I discovered this through trial an error and learned that the separation is better. Secondly, if you have 4 horns (for example) on one track, its difficult in editing if you want them to fade at different rates. A third and obvious reason was that different synths had different strengths in their sound/sample instrument libraries. For example, the old Yamaha TG-77 still has the most realistic Concert Harp. (As someone who used to play concert harp, I know this.)
I will consider adding Kontakt and Garritan if I start to feel like I'm painting myself into a corner.
Bobcat

I suggested the grouping to conserve CPU not the MIDI tracks. MIDI tracks are not going to burden the CPU. A soft synth is going to use plenty of CPU and the more instruments you have the more CPU is used. With a hardware sound module that is not a consideration. But they do have voicing limitations.

Your old setup reminds me of a XV 5080 user I worked with many years ago. He had a stack of them, 16 total and used them in patch mode. A real luxury. But a single soft synth today will out perform all 16 XV 5080s. 

I would listen to some GPO demo songs on their web site and see how it can sound.

If you have any questions this is the place to ask them. And welcome to the forum.

John, Thanks for the continued feed back. However, I was not clear in my response, since I meant that combining several midi tracks to one synth (channel) effectively would reduce the CPU resources, however, in doing so, I would not have individually controllable audio tracks ready for the mix, they would be premixed into a stereo tarck. So less load on CPU but less flexibilty later.
Or perhaps I'm wrong there. Is there little difference in CPU load when I send (for example) 8 separate MIDI tracks to a single softsynth to produce 8 unique audio tracks vs. 1 premixed track.

While I have no doubt that todays softsynths may give more control, when I had my rack of 8 syths (all different BTW: Yamaha TG-77 & EX5, Roland XV-5080 & SE-ME1, Korg 03/RW, Kurzweil 2500R, etc.) there was no CPU load to deal with or be constrained by, only potential MIDI lag, which I delt with as previously mentioned.

I'm not saying that the old way is better (it isn't) but rather that the new way is different; where the added flexibility and control comes at a cost (litterally and figuratively.)

As for the GPO demo's I had listened to them and unfortunately, I wasn't fully impressed. However, I attributed that to the production of the demos, and not the quality of the GPO set. It sounded to me as if the maker of the demos had little experience with actual symphonic music. Typically, in these demo's, no one uses a real known public domian piece of orchestral music to make a real comparison. This kind of thing is done to target the customer who wants an 'orchestral sound' who doesn't really know about orchestration or listens to a great deal of purely symphonic orchestral music. My guess is that making this kind of demo is too expensive to do well for such a small population of buyers (such as myself).

It all boils down to my learning the new techniques for realism. Not unlike a photorealistic painting. The trick is honing the technique sufficiently so that the audience is looking at the detail of the subject and not the technique of the painting. If I'm playing Ravel's "Daphnis and Chloe" for someone, I want the response to be to the music, and not the production. If they say, "That doesn't sound real" then I failed. I'll ask what about the recording 'doesn't sound real' and use that to correct the issue.

Bobcat

Brian,

That is something I'll have to determine the limits on once I get the setup determined.

Bobcat

Your orchestras would sound best using Vienna Ensemble Pro 5/MIR. MIR is the key. Especially when used with Vienna samples. But you can load ANY VST in there as well. I use VEP5/MIR inside Sonar. You can even use Networking to link multiple computers all running in Sonar on your main computer. I'm getting ready to download another room pack probably today. 11,000 impulses per room. Place orchestra members 1 at a time or sections at a time, face them in the direction you want, load the conductor mic position for a great in your face sound. you can use VEP5/MIR to place multiple mic arrays anywhere in the room you please and output to 5.1 maybe 7.1 too. Haven't used it in sonar in surround yet. And I understand VST3 is a much better way of running it though with muliple midi/audio ins/outs, and currently X1 and X2 don't support VST3. Looking at other DAWs for this purpose. Check out the demos though at VSL's website. I could never run my samles through anything else now... :)

Ive heard good things about VSL. However, the two downsides (at the moment) are cost and setup time. My references all said that setting up the samples is incredibly time consuming though worth it in the end. I am already considering VSL as a future investment, but due these issues it's not reeally feasible for me at the moment.

As for VST3, it isn't likely that Sonar will ever support it as it's Steinberg specific technology designed to work with their Cubase product. You'll find that most 'VST3 only' plugins also deal only with Stienberg products or products of Yamaha (Stienberg's parent company). Since Roland now owns Cakewalk, the conflict of interest is to the detriment of us (the users of a mixed bag of products.)