2016/03/04 22:25:16
craigb
Want me to round up some local muscle and pay them a visit?  I promise not to break any knuckles on their check signing hand. 
 
That said, sorry to hear you have to deal with this!  These situations suck.  Is there anyway that you can talk to someone as high up in the company as possible?  Let them know that you've been good commerce partners for over eight years, but you're simply not big enough to float them their payment for that long (18 months is a hell of a long time - maybe you should have had this question after 90 days?).  A conversation now might save both of you a lot of legal hell where only the sharks, I mean lawyers, seem to come out well.
2016/03/05 02:05:48
jamesg1213
craigb
 
18 months is a hell of a long time - maybe you should have had this question after 90 days?




This occurred to me too. Letting it go on that long must have put a massive strain on your cashflow.
2016/03/05 08:38:39
Guitarhacker
Dave,
 
when you have one customer which provides the majority of your income, you are in a precarious position.  I'm in a similar position with one customer providing more than half my income as well.  I have an excellent relationship with them which I do my utmost to maintain.
 
I generally work directly with them but on several occasions, I was asked to work with one of their general contractors on a project. We had done work with this same GC before so that was no problem. We did the project, submitted the bills and heard nothing. At the 90+ days point, not one single phone call was returned and no mail was answered and eventually the phone line was cut off. I asked the guy I normally work with what was going on with "so and so" contracting company... His reply.... Oh no, don't tell me they haven't paid you either....  seems they went bankrupt and didn't pay a single contractor on the job which was several hundred thousand dollars.  My contact person with the company asked me to send him the bill and they paid it. He told me, I was too valuable a resource to have me mad at them and he made sure I got paid properly.  When they have a problem, and need help, they need to know they can call me for assistance or advice. I've had phone calls for help on the side of a mountain while skiing. I took 15 minutes to help them out and resolve the issue before I completed my run to the lodge.

It's a good idea to find other customers who can use your particular skill set to augment your customer base. I know it's easy to keep that one customer and rationalize things.... but eventually it comes back to bite you.

In the case of this customer I have.... when I first started with them, we did a several hundred thousand dollar contract right out of the gate. Several others followed through the years and periodic repair, replace and upgrades kept things rolling nicely. We started with their  23 facilities so there was a constant flow of repair work to do. Through the years, they let leases expire and sold those assets to other similar companies.  Some of those retained our services and others did not, opting to do their own "in-house" repairs. I happened to be in one of those places a year or so back and the system we installed had been let go and was in dire need of a complete upgrade at that point.
Our original customer is now down to 8 or so facilities left.  We just submitted 3 proposals for sizable upgrades and one came in on the fax 2 nights ago.  As I get older and closer to retirement.... (I'll be 62 this year) ... I don't mind that things are slower than they were 10 years ago.  My existing residential customers also contribute to the work load.
We also do work directly for the factory that makes the equipment, and they have dumped a really sizable project (45 facilities) in our lap. We still do repairs and service work for them.


 
I work alone, so when I close the doors, the business assets will be sold to the highest bidder. If I had employees, perhaps I would be working to find other customers more aggressively. 

Depending on your situation, spending the time to find and attract other customers so that you don't rely on just one for the majority of your income may make sense. Pushing that thermonuclear button should be done only as a last resort.  Try the negotiation tactic first. That letter you mentioned would be a good start. Always remember to give them an easy to see path out of the situation.  Make it a "WIN/WIN" and hopefully you can continue to do business with them for years to come.  Because, while having one customer provide 50%+ is a precarious position, it's also less of a hassle because you're dealing with fewer people.
2016/03/05 10:27:40
bitflipper
Well said, Herb. I'm in a similar situation. I am theoretically close to retirement (I turn 65 this year) but when you're self-employed there's no gold watch and no retirement account. When I decided to be an entrepreneur 30 years ago, such concerns weren't on my radar. All I knew was I didn't want to die in a cubicle.
 
To that extent, I've been successful. I measure success by what I don't have. I don't have a daily commute, don't have a boss, don't attend meetings, don't have performance reviews, don't deal with office politics. Unfortunately, at the moment it also means I don't have any money.
2016/03/05 10:30:34
Moshkito
jamesg1213
Dave, I ran a signmaking company for 23 years. I've been in this situation more than once. Sadly I have to report it never went well.
 
This probably won't help...
 
The worst scenario was a similar amount, £40,000 GBP. Large contract (for us), but handled by a design/advertising agency, not the end user. Same thing, fobbed off for months with excuses, couldn't get the money out of them. Took them to court and applied a Mareva Injuction;
 
http://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/english-legal-system/mareva-injunction.php
 
It's a ferocious (and very costly, to us at the time) process which effectively froze their assets and stopped them trading or making any financial transactions.
 
We were 48 hours too late, they'd drained the bank accounts, spilt into 2 new limited companies and carried right on trading. We were even anonymously sent a parcel containing all their bank statements by a well-wisher in their company, but it didn't help.
 
This is one of the reasons why I'm now a gardener in Scotland.




I would start a personal lawsuit ... this is intentional fraud. And the courts will ask ... gee ... where did the money go? So you set this up to not pay folks and steal the money? This happened a couple of time to folks I know ... and one of them, this was for a million plus ... and he didn't win ... he's now starting over, and has to have "supervision" and all accounting can not be done "in-house". Any obvious cheating and he goes to jail, and the family assets frozen.
 
Go ahead ... steal ... you'll get caught sooner or later!
2016/03/05 12:48:08
jamesg1213
Moshkito
jamesg1213
Dave, I ran a signmaking company for 23 years. I've been in this situation more than once. Sadly I have to report it never went well.
 
This probably won't help...
 
The worst scenario was a similar amount, £40,000 GBP. Large contract (for us), but handled by a design/advertising agency, not the end user. Same thing, fobbed off for months with excuses, couldn't get the money out of them. Took them to court and applied a Mareva Injuction;
 
http://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/english-legal-system/mareva-injunction.php
 
It's a ferocious (and very costly, to us at the time) process which effectively froze their assets and stopped them trading or making any financial transactions.
 
We were 48 hours too late, they'd drained the bank accounts, spilt into 2 new limited companies and carried right on trading. We were even anonymously sent a parcel containing all their bank statements by a well-wisher in their company, but it didn't help.
 
This is one of the reasons why I'm now a gardener in Scotland.




I would start a personal lawsuit ... this is intentional fraud. And the courts will ask ... gee ... where did the money go? So you set this up to not pay folks and steal the money? This happened a couple of time to folks I know ... and one of them, this was for a million plus ... and he didn't win ... he's now starting over, and has to have "supervision" and all accounting can not be done "in-house". Any obvious cheating and he goes to jail, and the family assets frozen.
 
Go ahead ... steal ... you'll get caught sooner or later!




In the UK you cannot go after the directors of a limited company personally (at least, not legally). Anyway, the scenario I described was 20 years go. It was tried in the High Court in London. At the same time, we (myself and my 2 co-directors) were defending a lawsuit brought by an ex-director. The two cases were held within 15 minutes of each other. The ex-directors case was thrown out of court within minutes. We won the other one, but still never got a penny.
 
That was, to date, the most stressful day of my life, and I have no wish to repeat it.
2016/03/05 13:05:28
bitflipper
Same here. Smaller businesses are generally LLCs, which stands for Limited Liability Corporation, and it's comparable to an LTD in the UK. They don't get many of the perks of a full corporation, but they do get the most important one: individual employees and owners cannot be sued. 
2016/03/05 14:09:36
craigb
bitflipper
...I measure success by what I don't have. I don't have a daily commute, don't have a boss, don't attend meetings, don't have performance reviews, don't deal with office politics. Unfortunately, at the moment it also means I don't have any money.



Damn.  I've been a success all this time and didn't know it!!! 
2016/03/05 15:12:00
codamedia
Just because a business looks like they are doing fine, that doesn't mean they are. When payments stop it is almost always because they have cash flow issues. Since you are a small operation you become the last to get any of that share. They may be deep enough in trouble that 3rd party beancounters and lawyers are controlling their cash flow. You won't know any of that is happening... and the people in charge of the business could very well be very embarrassed and don't know how to talk to you.
 
I have worked for a business in this sort of trouble.... it's hard on them too! Getting money out of them (in this state) is possible though... you just have to convince them that YOU and YOUR SERVICES are a priority that matters.
 
1: Hire a lawyer, at least to draw up a letter.
2: Cut off all services and future work until a reasonable payment resolution is made. If they have products and/or services that are dependent on you - then you IMMEDIATELY becomes a priority. If you let them continue to get away without paying they will never pay and you are the only one that loses.
 
 
The above does not have to be nasty ... there are polite and professional ways to do it.
 
Good luck.... I feel bad for the position you are in.
2016/03/05 19:51:24
bitflipper
Thanks for the observations. Yes, I have been employed by two companies that went broke (it wasn't my fault, honest) and they took great pains to put on a facade and hide the fact that they were in trouble.
 
However, in this case I know when they make a sale, and know that they're making more money in a month than we pull in for a year. That's not conclusive, I know. The owners could be paying off mob loans.
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