2016/03/06 09:15:42
Guitarhacker
bitflipper
Well said, Herb. I'm in a similar situation. I am theoretically close to retirement (I turn 65 this year) but when you're self-employed there's no gold watch and no retirement account. When I decided to be an entrepreneur 30 years ago, such concerns weren't on my radar. All I knew was I didn't want to die in a cubicle.
 
To that extent, I've been successful. I measure success by what I don't have. I don't have a daily commute, don't have a boss, don't attend meetings, don't have performance reviews, don't deal with office politics. Unfortunately, at the moment it also means I don't have any money.




 
I didn't actually want to go this route. But I was fired by the last corporate entity and decided to do some side work while looking for a new job. In the first few days handing out business cards I ended up in one day, easily making what I made in a week with my former employer.   I'm the kind of person who doesn't abide idiots and suck-ups very well.... so I tended to not play the politics game. After having worked for people who insisted things be done their way when mine was clearly more efficient, and being fired from several jobs, I had an epiphany..... If I start my own business, no one person can ever fire me again and cut off my income completely.  Over the 24 years or so I've been doing this, I've had customers fire me, and I have fired them. But I'm still here and my customers, for the most part, are very loyal to me, and most importantly, they pay their bills on time.

When people say to me, " Man, you're so lucky to be working for yourself".... I just smile to myself and let them believe what they will.  I've said it before..... and I'll say it again.... Being self employed has some advantages and a who list of disadvantages. When the phone is ringing and you're working it's great, but there's a fine line between being self employed and being unemployed.
2016/03/08 14:13:23
Moshkito
jamesg1213
craigb
 
18 months is a hell of a long time - maybe you should have had this question after 90 days?




This occurred to me too. Letting it go on that long must have put a massive strain on your cashflow.




I would say that those folks are waiting for someone to call their bluff and they will file for bankruptcy ... the sad thing is that a lawyer like won't be able to freeze their assets ... because they have already cleared them ... and the best you can do is nail them for fraud.
2016/03/08 14:25:45
sharke
Guitarhacker
bitflipper
Well said, Herb. I'm in a similar situation. I am theoretically close to retirement (I turn 65 this year) but when you're self-employed there's no gold watch and no retirement account. When I decided to be an entrepreneur 30 years ago, such concerns weren't on my radar. All I knew was I didn't want to die in a cubicle.
 
To that extent, I've been successful. I measure success by what I don't have. I don't have a daily commute, don't have a boss, don't attend meetings, don't have performance reviews, don't deal with office politics. Unfortunately, at the moment it also means I don't have any money.




 
I didn't actually want to go this route. But I was fired by the last corporate entity and decided to do some side work while looking for a new job. In the first few days handing out business cards I ended up in one day, easily making what I made in a week with my former employer.   I'm the kind of person who doesn't abide idiots and suck-ups very well.... so I tended to not play the politics game. After having worked for people who insisted things be done their way when mine was clearly more efficient, and being fired from several jobs, I had an epiphany..... If I start my own business, no one person can ever fire me again and cut off my income completely.  Over the 24 years or so I've been doing this, I've had customers fire me, and I have fired them. But I'm still here and my customers, for the most part, are very loyal to me, and most importantly, they pay their bills on time.

When people say to me, " Man, you're so lucky to be working for yourself".... I just smile to myself and let them believe what they will.  I've said it before..... and I'll say it again.... Being self employed has some advantages and a who list of disadvantages. When the phone is ringing and you're working it's great, but there's a fine line between being self employed and being unemployed.


I think the worst part is the lack of time off. There is no law telling your customers you have the right to x number of weeks of per year. If you have no stand-in to take over your duties while you're on vacation, then you ain't taking a vacation! And there are no "sickies" - no "I have the sniffles and feel a little sorry for myself so I think I'll call in sick." I had surgery for skin cancer 7 years ago and 2 hours after waking up I got dressed and to the sound of protests from doctors and nurses who called me crazy, wheeled myself and my drip down the hallway to discharge myself, stepped out onto First Avenue in 100 degree heat, took a taxi home, ate, threw up, went to bed and got up at 6am the next morning to work all day in the searing heat with my arm in a sling, feeling as weak as a kitten. And believe me, that story gets rolled out to every employee since who wants a day off because they have a "sore throat" - lol!
2016/03/08 17:10:28
bitflipper
 Every self-employed person has a similar tale.
 
Just a few hours ago I picked up my stepson from an overnight stay in hospital, where he'd had two cardiac stents installed. On the drive home he was already on the phone and planned to head straight into the office. (He has his own garage-door company.)
 
In the 23 years I've been self-employed, I've taken one vacation per year but almost no holidays and only a few weekends. For years, 80+-hour workweeks were the norm. Now that the groundwork is done, I can slack off a little. But I would never have allowed an employer to make such demands of me!
2016/03/08 18:20:36
slartabartfast
bitflipper
 
I'm thinking now that rather than launch a scorched-earth assault I should just send them a registered letter telling them that our contract is now void due to their noncompliance. Let them read between the lines. 




The problem with voiding the contract is that, once voided, you cannot hold each other to perform on the terms going forward. That would be a scorched earth policy, and then you would need to treat them as a common debtor, or negotiate a new contract. A letter threatening to terminate the contract due to nonpayment would give you more wiggle room. You can withhold a service that you are obligated to provide (support) if the contract makes it clear that the service is contingent on timely payment. If the contract is ambiguous on this issue, then they might still be able to compel performance on your obligation, even though they are in arrears on payment. In that case, your voiding of the contract might become your defense. As a practical matter, if you have not been paid, it is because, they do not value your service, or they estimate that you are powerless to compel payment, or they do not have the money because it is going to something they consider more important. There may be a much squeakier wheel demanding payment out there. 
2016/03/09 08:04:28
Jesse Screed
Hello Bit
 
I don't recommend this, but as a last resort you could try voodoo.
 
The worst part about choosing voodoo is that you enter into another contract that is not revocable.
 
I hope it works out for you. No one deserves to be jilted.
 
Jesse Q. Screed
2016/03/09 09:55:57
tlw
If the company relies on your product to make money and they aren't paying you that makes me wonder if they're actually making money at all. A customer that doesn't pay ceases being a customer and becomes a liability, and if they're not paying you for services already provided then hanging on hoping they'll pay you for future provision of your services is probably futile.

Personally, for that kind of amount of money combined with the delay in payment I'd be seeking legal advice on (1) recovering the debt and (2) whether the "customer" has defaulted to the point the contract is breached and I can pull whatever support and other facilities the contract commits me to. Going through the courts may or may not be required in the end, but a stiff letter on legal letterhead might focus their attention, as might taking away your services and their access to your product if it will hit their income and your legal adviser's opinion is they are unlikely to win a case if they try to hold you to your side of the contract despite them not paying you.

Above all though, for that much money owed for that long, I'd be looking to recover whatever I can as soon as possible in case the company declares bankruptcy. There are many strategies that might be used, but I'm not a lawyer and my knowledge of the relevant law outside England and Wales is slight. Though if they do go bankrupt the reciever might actually be easier to deal with than the company directors, and may be more inclined to pay you something, even if not the full amount due, to keep the company in business as a going concern.

If the company wants future services I'd also be inclined to start requiring at least part-payment in advance.

So I'd say yes, you need a lawyer. Unfortunately.
2016/03/09 11:17:35
AT
Bit, I dont' know who you've talked to there but I would get on the phone (or appear at the HQ door) and find out what is going on w/ non-payment.  All casual friendly like.  But first get a lawyer and prepare to go nuclear - but don't tell them that.  Don't threaten them but give them one last chance.  If their check doesn't come in a week or whenever they said, slap the lean on them.  Either they will pay or they can't, but as said above, the squeaky wheel tends to get whatever oil there is.  If you get a month or two pay out of them you are ahead of where you are today.
 
@
2016/03/10 20:31:38
Starise
It seems like you have a long term relationship with these people. It can be frustrating to expect income and it doesn't arrive. I can certainly understand your concern and even frustration. 
Would a face to face meeting help? 
If they can pay and aren't paying that's one thing, but if they can't pay and you take legal action you might loose a long term business partner who might find a way to eventually pay. JMO.
 
2016/03/12 13:04:28
bitflipper
So far we've been unable to get a callback from the top guy, who may either be on vacation or is dodging us, I don't know.
 
I can't afford a lawyer and I can't afford a trip to their city, but I've decided that a face-to-face meeting is best. I'll probably go for the gamble, put the airfare on my credit card and cross my fingers it isn't wasted debt. My laptop recently died (when it rains it pours), so at the moment I can't travel anyhow.  A replacement (charged to said credit card, of course) has been ordered. Once I get that and get it configured I'll likely head over to see them in person.
 
Thanks again, everyone, for your thoughtful advice.
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