Conspiracy or reality?  Who knows.  I really don;t want to find out. Unless it's like some sort of worldwide zombie virus.... which, in that case, I'm tempted to say.... bring it on.
 
EMP is possible, I guess. It would take a suicidal nation to do it though. I'm guessing our military is well prepared to return fire from deep inside Cheyenne Mountain.  Just how damaging it would be depends on a large number of factors. One is distance.... the further you are from the point of detonation, the less damage you would incur. It also depends on how "hardened" the computers and electronic devices are.  If they are not running and at a distance, like cars, there might be no damage.
In a worst case scenario, where the enemy decides to hit hard and in multiple locations..... if successful, it would knock out the electrical grids in the USA. There are 3 interconnected grids. You could take out several major substations simultaneously and have the same effect without firing nuke missiles.  A dozen coordinated strike teams could do it too. 3 to 4 attacks on substations in each of the 3 grids at approximately the same time, would start a cascading effect of shutting down the grids. Overloaded transformers will either blow or trip like dominoes falling, effectively taking the entire system of 3 grids down. The result would be grid down nation wide.  It could be several weeks to months or even years before power gets back up depending on the method used to take it down and the damage caused in the process.  Without electricity.... we are instantly in the 1800's again. We do not have the transformers needed to repair the grid setting in a warehouse since it would likely be thousands of them needed. They have to be built, one at a time, in a factory...which has no power to run the machinery needed.

Seriously in deep poo.  Not many folks know how to live and survive in that kind of world. In 3 days, all the food in the supply line is gone. Gasoline isn't available either.  10 days in people are panicked and starting to eat things they would never think of eating. 30 days in, starvation starts to kill off the people unable to get food. At about this same time, lack of water for sanitation has lead to 3rd world diseases like cholera and dysentery making a return to this land. Lawless gangs will be roving looking for food, water, food, guns, ammunition, and anything else they want or need. They will kill to get it. Telephones, both land line and cell are not going to work. Calling 911 would be useless since the govt especially at the local levels and state as well as federal levels will be in a similar situation. So you can't count on the police to come to your aid.  On the good side of that, the IRS will likely have lost all your records.
If the power is off for 12 months or more, some people familiar with this kind of scenario estimate that 90% of the population will be dead from one thing or another. Mostly disease or starvation.  This of course does not factor in what any of the rest of the world would be doing during this time. If they are affected as well, because our govt was able to nuke them back.... they will have their own issues to deal with. However, if they are still operational, they will obviously become a player in the issues we are having to deal with as well as the problems directly caused by the grid down.

And it really wouldn't necessarily have to be terrorists with a plan or rogue nations with EMP's. Our sun is very capable of creating a first class Carrington Event all by itself. It did that back in the mid 1800's and all we had at the time were telegraphs. It set some of the telegraph stations on fire and melted the wires on the poles.... In fact, quite recently, there have been some sizable coronal mass ejections that missed our planet by mere days and had the potential to wreak havoc on our civilization. On those Carrington events, we do get a few days notice fortunately.

Should one of those events happen and we are "grid down" for more than a few days..... I would definitely miss being able to play music on the computer and to record.... but I probably wouldn't miss it too much. I'd be too busy fighting of the roving herds of zombies wanting to eat my brain and hunting for food on a daily basis.

Does it take a faraday shield to protect or would a lead lined box protect some chips and thumb drives.
 
@Kenny. I didn't think about the electricity and water... that's what I meant. What am I not thinking about. I have water purification tabs and know where a spring is within walking distance. I have plenty of .22, .40, 00 buck, slugs, bird shot, and 8mm Nambu. Also plenty of powder and shot for my Hawken. I need to get a Taurus Judge and some .410 shells. I need some ammo for a Jap rifle too. I know how to make the layman's napalm, gasoline and Styrofoam in a jug. A bas arse cocktail... I don't really want offensive weapons but defensive. I'd love to know how to make a sort of Claymore... just in case.
Like I said, I am not a prepper, I know plants to eat and how to hunt, though I don't hunt much I know you can eat all sorts of animals and I know how to keep a low profile. I keep a little rice and beans, not a lot but enough for a week. I know to fill the tubs and all bottles, to keep the water in the toilet tanks and water heater. I think I'll get by if it happens but if me and mine are attacked, there will be a price to pay. If it were just me, I would just give it up and leave because I think it is the right thing to do but I'll not leave my wife, daughters, or grand daughters to the wolves.
 
Thanks, I hope it doesn't happen but it is SUCH an easy thing to do. A low orbit, low yield nuclear device is all it takes. Three or four in the right places and we, if we are right... are in trouble.
I wonder how long it would take to get the food and water going again.. and electricity. Economics would completely change because of the loss of records. We would be strong or weak. In a way I think it would be like the 17th century in America where one day you might plant crops, the next day you might be attacked by a "tribe" only this time not "native Americans" but gangs of thugs. I'm still not going to become a prepper, I have a provider and I'll do what I can to protect the innocent and stop the predators.
I really hope it does not happen. It is frightful that it easily could and our government does not take it seriously. We can still make music. Maybe I'll buy an old Tascam 8-track cassette recorder. I would be nice to have a box to store a spare chip and HD in though.... of course, that would be of little importance. I still think that the more prepared you are, the more of a target you are. There are caves under our land... maybe I should have a shaft dug... lol.
 
Counterpoint?
 
J

J , I'm gonna have to give it more thought before I do a counterpoint ...
I think Herb hit a few key points ..
Kenny

as a failed hippie I remember the realisation that the utopian,supposedly alternative  subculture we all aspired to would be a prime target if the faeces hit the fan.
in the 70`s I wrote a paranoid short story, during the oil crisis,recruiting nurses and warriors to defend the "farm"-it finished with pre mad max hordes roaring over the hill. 
 
at the time there was not the dependency on the net for all things-it was the power grid and the fuel that fed it that mattered by then,fuelled by the post war boom and strung out over vast distances,ripe for sabotage.
now we have the internet and how fragile is that?
seriously-blind freddies dog can see we have outlived our nadir as the ultimate agrarian animal and there are just too many of us and too many to come.
I am sitting here in the house I built,with my own water,power and sewerage,eating the last of the mandarins,knowing that the nearest supermarket is walking distance away.
you can see my solar panels from the highway-they stick out like dogs balls.
welcoming the walking hungry-who needs zombies-hunger is our natural state.
thanks for reminding me.....more coffee.
or maybe I have had too much already?
cheers 

webbs hill studio
as a failed hippie I remember the realisation that the utopian,supposedly alternative  subculture we all aspired to would be a prime target if the faeces hit the fan.
in the 70`s I wrote a paranoid short story, during the oil crisis,recruiting nurses and warriors to defend the "farm"-it finished with pre mad max hordes roaring over the hill. 
 
at the time there was not the dependency on the net for all things-it was the power grid and the fuel that fed it that mattered by then,fuelled by the post war boom and strung out over vast distances,ripe for sabotage.
now we have the internet and how fragile is that?
seriously-blind freddies dog can see we have outlived our nadir as the ultimate agrarian animal and there are just too many of us and too many to come.
I am sitting here in the house I built,with my own water,power and sewerage,eating the last of the mandarins,knowing that the nearest supermarket is walking distance away.
you can see my solar panels from the highway-they stick out like dogs balls.
welcoming the walking hungry-who needs zombies-hunger is our natural state.
thanks for reminding me.....more coffee.
or maybe I have had too much already?
cheers 

I was a failed Hippie too but really I was one of Zappa's phony Hippies (popping up in every town... We're Only in it For the Money) I made it to SF in '68 for a few days but joined the "counter culture" in 1970. I was just there for the party. It was one heck of a party too!!!
These days I just work, or worked. My wife works. I try to live responsibility. I try to give to those in need, what is more important? Life is short. Still, I have a problem with the idea of people taking from me but not really so much me but from those who depend on me. I'd like to think I could and would "turn the other cheek" and "go two miles is compelled to go one". I have not been tested that way though,,, but I will not sit aside and see others abused... it is hard to think about. We all die. I hope to die well. not trying to save myself but it would be my wish to die for someone else... since I have to die anyway. Since death comes to everyone I think the martyrs death would certainly be the best way to go.  That's my thinking anyway.
So, I'll protect if I can but if it's just me I'll abandon, give, try to live and forgive. What else is better? We are all so self centered. Some may think they are not, but I think we all are.
Well right now I'm watching Lynyrd Skynyrd playing Pronounced and Second Helping on TV... good stuff.
Good times for now... who is the guy who replaced Hughie?
 
J
 

kennywtelejazz
J , I'm gonna have to give it more thought before I do a counterpoint ...
I think Herb hit a few key points ..
Kenny

There may not be a "counterpoint". Not from you...
 
J

Guitarhacker
Conspiracy or reality?  Who knows.  I really don;t want to find out. Unless it's like some sort of worldwide zombie virus.... which, in that case, I'm tempted to say.... bring it on.
 
EMP is possible, I guess. It would take a suicidal nation to do it though. I'm guessing our military is well prepared to return fire from deep inside Cheyenne Mountain.  Just how damaging it would be depends on a large number of factors. One is distance.... the further you are from the point of detonation, the less damage you would incur. It also depends on how "hardened" the computers and electronic devices are.  If they are not running and at a distance, like cars, there might be no damage.
In a worst case scenario, where the enemy decides to hit hard and in multiple locations..... if successful, it would knock out the electrical grids in the USA. There are 3 interconnected grids. You could take out several major substations simultaneously and have the same effect without firing nuke missiles.  A dozen coordinated strike teams could do it too. 3 to 4 attacks on substations in each of the 3 grids at approximately the same time, would start a cascading effect of shutting down the grids. Overloaded transformers will either blow or trip like dominoes falling, effectively taking the entire system of 3 grids down. The result would be grid down nation wide.  It could be several weeks to months or even years before power gets back up depending on the method used to take it down and the damage caused in the process.  Without electricity.... we are instantly in the 1800's again. We do not have the transformers needed to repair the grid setting in a warehouse since it would likely be thousands of them needed. They have to be built, one at a time, in a factory...which has no power to run the machinery needed.

Seriously in deep poo.  Not many folks know how to live and survive in that kind of world. In 3 days, all the food in the supply line is gone. Gasoline isn't available either.  10 days in people are panicked and starting to eat things they would never think of eating. 30 days in, starvation starts to kill off the people unable to get food. At about this same time, lack of water for sanitation has lead to 3rd world diseases like cholera and dysentery making a return to this land. Lawless gangs will be roving looking for food, water, food, guns, ammunition, and anything else they want or need. They will kill to get it. Telephones, both land line and cell are not going to work. Calling 911 would be useless since the govt especially at the local levels and state as well as federal levels will be in a similar situation. So you can't count on the police to come to your aid.  On the good side of that, the IRS will likely have lost all your records.
If the power is off for 12 months or more, some people familiar with this kind of scenario estimate that 90% of the population will be dead from one thing or another. Mostly disease or starvation.  This of course does not factor in what any of the rest of the world would be doing during this time. If they are affected as well, because our govt was able to nuke them back.... they will have their own issues to deal with. However, if they are still operational, they will obviously become a player in the issues we are having to deal with as well as the problems directly caused by the grid down.

And it really wouldn't necessarily have to be terrorists with a plan or rogue nations with EMP's. Our sun is very capable of creating a first class Carrington Event all by itself. It did that back in the mid 1800's and all we had at the time were telegraphs. It set some of the telegraph stations on fire and melted the wires on the poles.... In fact, quite recently, there have been some sizable coronal mass ejections that missed our planet by mere days and had the potential to wreak havoc on our civilization. On those Carrington events, we do get a few days notice fortunately.

Should one of those events happen and we are "grid down" for more than a few days..... I would definitely miss being able to play music on the computer and to record.... but I probably wouldn't miss it too much. I'd be too busy fighting of the roving herds of zombies wanting to eat my brain and hunting for food on a daily basis.

Wow... I now am sure if anything like this happens it will be time to repair to the deep woods and stay hidden, living off squirrels, deer, opossum, dandelions, poke salad, and if in the deep south or coast swamp cabbage. There is a lot to eat in the woods. Most mushrooms that grow on trees are edible. Pine nuts. Acorns... it is doable but not comfortable.... no buffalo robes to be had. We would make it if we react with intelligence and not with waiting on someone else to help.
Thanks Herb.
 
J

I'm 100 yards from the deep woods.
Walk my dog in there.
 
Rev 14:20 says regarding the battle of Armageddon.
 
And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses' bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.
 
Horses.
In a yet (but very soon) future.

I could prepare, but I think I'll just be one of the first casualties instead.  Having already lost everything once, I don't want to barely survive in an unenjoyable world.

what a can of worms:
what if the best thing that could happen to the planet,for it`s own sake is for a plague and or EMP or a dying sun somewhere else to descend and reduce the masses once again to a sustainable level,free from industry and pollution with only a few hardy survivors to repopulate the earth-sounds familiar-I think it was phillip dick who said todays science fiction is tomorrows future-correct me if I misquote-but where are the positive,possible movies and scenarios-where is bruce willis when you need him to develop the clean technology,the pollution scrubbers,the water purifiers,the sustainable production of renewable proteins and carbs-you don`t see that at the cinemaplex.
why not-it`s a plausible scenario and worthy of a conspiracy theory in that if population growth is unsustainable a virus or two combined with an EMP (edit:to remain topical and not appear to hijack the thread)would seem to be the only alternative to sustaining us.
does it mean there is no hope?
is there anything biblical happening?
could it all reboot with a few hardy preppers who survived-I`m sure every seat of power has their refuges ?
forget Mars-a reborn earth is the new frontier-give it 50 years to stabilise and give it another go.
is the Carrington Event the elephant in the room(after all who would want to know and who would tell anyway)? 
I don`t think I will see it, maybe my great grandchildren will but I doubt it.
 
how fortunate are we to have lived if these are indeed the end of days.
oh well..