Jind


It's like politics these days - it's not "really" lying if you play the semantics game.  Just use implication type messaging but choose your words carefully so you can fully deny that was the intended interpretation.  I'm waiting for the disclaimer that "we never actually stated in print that it would be available from us - did we?"  

While I'm not impacted by this change, I readily admit that I dislike when clarity of message becomes an issue - just tell people when a sale is starting, when it is ending, and where it is available from at the get go.  None of this guessing game about the fine print.

As always individual mileage may vary.

We sent emails in August saying the upgrade price was going up for certain customers and that they should buy SONAR X1 before August 31st. We left pricing and SONAR X1 upgrades up until September 4th to give people a little more time. Like I said before, we are now transitioning to SONAR X2. This is what almost every company does when they release a new software product. We tried to be as proactive as possible in letting customers know about pricing changes, posting new upgrade pricing, system requirements, etc. Again, it's impossible to please everyone but I think we have tried to be pretty fair and I think SONAR X2 upgrade pricing is very reasonable.


<<I'm waiting for the disclaimer that "we never actually stated in print that it would be available from us - did we?">>

While me make the transition and get everyone stocking SONAR X2, this is a customer service measure we do any customers who happen to buy SONAR X1 at worldwide retailers can get SONAR X2. We have done this for the past few releases. Other companies do this as well. The Cakewalk Store won't be selling SONAR X1 anymore but upgrades are probably still available at retailers like Musician's Friend and Sweetwater. At some point, they will be carrying SONAR X2 and they won't sell SONAR X1 (very likely before October 31st). That's their choice and it makes sense as SONAR X2 is now going to be the current version.

paulo

chrisby


In all fairness (and possibly no one has pointed this out yet) but the verbiage from the upgrade page stated (in bold no less)  -


"Special Offer: Starting August 1 through October 31st, when you purchase SONAR X1 Production Suite, you will get SONAR X2 Producer for free once it becomes available. Take advantage of all the new features in SONAR X1 without having to worry that a new version is just around corner."

clearly implying that if you wanted to upgrade via that path you had until October 31st. That's pretty inarguable. It's still there in Google cache. So I'm sure I wasn't the only one waiting to see what the "early adopter" freebie was going to be and whether it would apply to upgraders (mixed messages were floating around) before deciding.  Not a huge deal but still for next time CW should probably be more clear from the get-go.....

I agree - I pointed this out in a thread last week - it was very misleading.

I fairness to Andrew he did contact me via PM to try and explain their logic, but the fact remains thay we were told one thing and then a few days later told something different.  As for being available via "worldwide retailers" - erm not so in the UK - Roland UK say that you can't get it any more, only via CW, who say contact retailers..............

I would like to think that because of their misleading information that CW will do the decent thing and re-instate the offer for a period of time, so that those who have missed out because they took "Starting August 1 through October 31st" to mean exactly that and not - until sometime in early September-  have a chance to take up the offer that they thought they had plenty of time to do so, but I won't be holding my breath.

Again, if you buy SONAR X1 between August 1st and October 31st, you will get SONAR X2 free. Where it's being sold is up to each retailer but I imagine SONAR X2 will be on shelves in October. If by chance you walk into a store, and only SONAR X1 is on the shelf, you can buy it with the peace of mind that you can get SONAR X2. 

I think you are misunderstanding the OP's point. When Cakewalk decides to stop selling X1 is completely beside the point. Directly to the point, up until yesterday a person that owned X1 Producer and wanted to upgrade to X1 Production Suite would have gone to this page -

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JtdUQSGqI_sJ:www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx%3Fproductid%3D10-CXPS1.00-20E+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

where it very clearly states that the offer ran through Oct 31. Undeniably that is the case. Any reasonable person would have read it that way. If the intent was "only some of these products will be available through Oct 31st" (i.e. the ones available in B&M stores) then it should have said so. So someone either screwed up putting that statement up in the first place or in taking it down prematurely but none the less someone at Cakewalk made a mistake. I don't believe it was intentional but that doesn't help those of us that were counting on going that route based on what was published at the time. For us the fact that B&M stores are selling some of the products on that page, just not the ones we're interested in, is of little consolation.

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

paulo

chrisby


In all fairness (and possibly no one has pointed this out yet) but the verbiage from the upgrade page stated (in bold no less)  -


"Special Offer: Starting August 1 through October 31st, when you purchase SONAR X1 Production Suite, you will get SONAR X2 Producer for free once it becomes available. Take advantage of all the new features in SONAR X1 without having to worry that a new version is just around corner."

clearly implying that if you wanted to upgrade via that path you had until October 31st. That's pretty inarguable. It's still there in Google cache. So I'm sure I wasn't the only one waiting to see what the "early adopter" freebie was going to be and whether it would apply to upgraders (mixed messages were floating around) before deciding.  Not a huge deal but still for next time CW should probably be more clear from the get-go.....

I agree - I pointed this out in a thread last week - it was very misleading.

I fairness to Andrew he did contact me via PM to try and explain their logic, but the fact remains thay we were told one thing and then a few days later told something different.  As for being available via "worldwide retailers" - erm not so in the UK - Roland UK say that you can't get it any more, only via CW, who say contact retailers..............

I would like to think that because of their misleading information that CW will do the decent thing and re-instate the offer for a period of time, so that those who have missed out because they took "Starting August 1 through October 31st" to mean exactly that and not - until sometime in early September-  have a chance to take up the offer that they thought they had plenty of time to do so, but I won't be holding my breath.

Again, if you buy SONAR X1 between August 1st and October 31st, you will get SONAR X2 free. Where it's being sold is up to each retailer but I imagine SONAR X2 will be on shelves in October. If by chance you walk into a store, and only SONAR X1 is on the shelf, you can buy it with the peace of mind that you can get SONAR X2. 

chrisby

I think you are misunderstanding the OP's point. When Cakewalk decides to stop selling X1 is completely beside the point. Directly to the point, up until yesterday a person that owned X1 Producer and wanted to upgrade to X1 Production Suite would have gone to this page -

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JtdUQSGqI_sJ:www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx%3Fproductid%3D10-CXPS1.00-20E+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

where it very clearly states that the offer ran through Oct 31. Undeniably that is the case. Any reasonable person would have read it that way. If the intent was "only some of these products will be available through Oct 31st" (i.e. the ones available in B&M stores) then it should have said so. So someone either screwed up putting that statement up in the first place or in taking it down prematurely but none the less someone at Cakewalk made a mistake. I don't believe it was intentional but that doesn't help those of us that were counting on going that route based on what was published at the time. For us the fact that B&M stores are selling some of the products on that page, just not the ones we're interested in, is of little consolation.

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

paulo

chrisby


In all fairness (and possibly no one has pointed this out yet) but the verbiage from the upgrade page stated (in bold no less)  -


"Special Offer: Starting August 1 through October 31st, when you purchase SONAR X1 Production Suite, you will get SONAR X2 Producer for free once it becomes available. Take advantage of all the new features in SONAR X1 without having to worry that a new version is just around corner."

clearly implying that if you wanted to upgrade via that path you had until October 31st. That's pretty inarguable. It's still there in Google cache. So I'm sure I wasn't the only one waiting to see what the "early adopter" freebie was going to be and whether it would apply to upgraders (mixed messages were floating around) before deciding.  Not a huge deal but still for next time CW should probably be more clear from the get-go.....

I agree - I pointed this out in a thread last week - it was very misleading.

I fairness to Andrew he did contact me via PM to try and explain their logic, but the fact remains thay we were told one thing and then a few days later told something different.  As for being available via "worldwide retailers" - erm not so in the UK - Roland UK say that you can't get it any more, only via CW, who say contact retailers..............

I would like to think that because of their misleading information that CW will do the decent thing and re-instate the offer for a period of time, so that those who have missed out because they took "Starting August 1 through October 31st" to mean exactly that and not - until sometime in early September-  have a chance to take up the offer that they thought they had plenty of time to do so, but I won't be holding my breath.

Again, if you buy SONAR X1 between August 1st and October 31st, you will get SONAR X2 free. Where it's being sold is up to each retailer but I imagine SONAR X2 will be on shelves in October. If by chance you walk into a store, and only SONAR X1 is on the shelf, you can buy it with the peace of mind that you can get SONAR X2. 

Perhaps that is how you interpret it but the offer and who is selling it are completely independent. When a retailer decides to start stocking SONAR X2 is their choice. Th spirit of it was that you can buy SONAR X1 without worrying that you'll miss out on the new version around the corner. It doesn't mean every retailer will be stocking SONAR X1 through October 31st. I answered this as well on another post about this same exact topic. Ryan has also answered it.

The Cakewalk Store is officially selling SONAR X2. 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

chrisby

I think you are misunderstanding the OP's point. When Cakewalk decides to stop selling X1 is completely beside the point. Directly to the point, up until yesterday a person that owned X1 Producer and wanted to upgrade to X1 Production Suite would have gone to this page -

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JtdUQSGqI_sJ:www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx%3Fproductid%3D10-CXPS1.00-20E+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

where it very clearly states that the offer ran through Oct 31. Undeniably that is the case. Any reasonable person would have read it that way. If the intent was "only some of these products will be available through Oct 31st" (i.e. the ones available in B&M stores) then it should have said so. So someone either screwed up putting that statement up in the first place or in taking it down prematurely but none the less someone at Cakewalk made a mistake. I don't believe it was intentional but that doesn't help those of us that were counting on going that route based on what was published at the time. For us the fact that B&M stores are selling some of the products on that page, just not the ones we're interested in, is of little consolation.

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

paulo

chrisby


In all fairness (and possibly no one has pointed this out yet) but the verbiage from the upgrade page stated (in bold no less)  -


"Special Offer: Starting August 1 through October 31st, when you purchase SONAR X1 Production Suite, you will get SONAR X2 Producer for free once it becomes available. Take advantage of all the new features in SONAR X1 without having to worry that a new version is just around corner."

clearly implying that if you wanted to upgrade via that path you had until October 31st. That's pretty inarguable. It's still there in Google cache. So I'm sure I wasn't the only one waiting to see what the "early adopter" freebie was going to be and whether it would apply to upgraders (mixed messages were floating around) before deciding.  Not a huge deal but still for next time CW should probably be more clear from the get-go.....

I agree - I pointed this out in a thread last week - it was very misleading.

I fairness to Andrew he did contact me via PM to try and explain their logic, but the fact remains thay we were told one thing and then a few days later told something different.  As for being available via "worldwide retailers" - erm not so in the UK - Roland UK say that you can't get it any more, only via CW, who say contact retailers..............

I would like to think that because of their misleading information that CW will do the decent thing and re-instate the offer for a period of time, so that those who have missed out because they took "Starting August 1 through October 31st" to mean exactly that and not - until sometime in early September-  have a chance to take up the offer that they thought they had plenty of time to do so, but I won't be holding my breath.

Again, if you buy SONAR X1 between August 1st and October 31st, you will get SONAR X2 free. Where it's being sold is up to each retailer but I imagine SONAR X2 will be on shelves in October. If by chance you walk into a store, and only SONAR X1 is on the shelf, you can buy it with the peace of mind that you can get SONAR X2. 

Perhaps that is how you interpret it but the offer and who is selling it are completely independent. When a retailer decides to start stocking SONAR X2 is their choice. Th spirit of it was that you can buy SONAR X1 without worrying that you'll miss out on the new version around the corner. It doesn't mean every retailer will be stocking SONAR X1 through October 31st. I answered this as well on another post about this same exact topic. Ryan has also answered it.

The Cakewalk Store is officially selling SONAR X2. 

Andrew, you seem like a nice guy and all and it's good to have some direct input here from CW, but there is only one way to "interpret" "Starting August 1 through October 31st".  You (CW) even went to the trouble of putting this in bold type for emphasis - so did you really think that people would read that and think - ooh I better get that right now, because they will remove that offer on Sept 5th?  I had many emails promoting this offer including one on the last day of August, I'm sure I wasn't the only one and none of them implied that the offer was about to be effectively withdrawn, so it really shouldn't surprise you that people are a little peeved by this.

At best, someone at CW scored an own goal with the way this offer was presented, that's ok, we all do from time to time, but the classy thing to do in such circumstances is to admit the mistake and do something to make amends, not to blame your customers for not realising that October 31st actually meant September 5th.  I even had another email saying that the offer price would increase in Sept, but at no point was the fact that it would be withdrawn mentioned.

It's things like this that undo all the things you do so well, which is such a shame.

Ah, well. Just pushed the button on X2 pre-order. I'm sure I still got a bargain.

I was another who saw the offer (in my case 8.5 producer -> X1 production Suite) and didn't worry about getting it right then as it wasn't due to expire and I was off on holiday for a few days... and now it's gone. I'll likely try and grab an X1 upgrade from somewhere else for the free X2 upgrade, but I really would have liked the Production suite - the X2 pre-sale just isn't as good a deal unless you *really* need more strings. I'm not going to complain too much as it's Cakewalk's offers so they're welcome to do whatever they wish. It does seem somewhat disingenuous in this case though, especially as there were obviously a fair number of people considering it but waiting for the webinar.

Add me to the list.  I'm not a happy bunny

perfectly understandable.
 
I wrote it in the other thread, here again:
 
I'd talk to cakewalk directly. The only way to upgrade to X1 production Suite was via the Cakewalk Store. in this store, for this very item "Sonar X1 Production Suite (Upgrade)", it was stated that the offer for this very item is valid until the end of october.

They can't make an offer, and then delete it from the store before end of october, claiming either that the offer is still valid, but not anymore for the upgrade, instead only for the full version, nor caliming that the offer for the upgrade is still valid, but there won't be anyone to buy it from...

Clearly an unfortunate mistake by cakewalk, but it was THEIR mistake, not yours, and they should show responsibility for their actions, no matter how generous they were before, or are now, with all their other promotions.

Contact Cakewalk. This was a bloody good deal, getting X1 Production Suite, the PC4k Gate/Expander, Z3ta+2, X2 Producer and the DSF Symphonic Strings for only 80€ when upgrading to X1 Production Suite, the offer for it - the upgrade - valid until the end of october. It was Cakewalks offer, I accepted, and Cakewalk can't put that offer down when they announced it being valid until the end of october.

THEIR fault, not your's. The misleading seems obvious to me, you deserve an excuse at least, no more explanations.

There even WON'T BE any more explanations, along with no excuse, as at least Andrew said his last post will be his last reply in the other thread, so I definately would contact Cakewalk directly. You deserve justification.

Good luck.