I've been mixing with the mouse wheel mostly. 

However I'm currently working on a mix that requires fast fader movement (gradually, but fast) moving from min to max. 

Pulling the fader down to the bottom is not an issue, but building it up, is just not fast enough to stop correctly at "0" position of the fader, either using mouse, wheel or mapping it to a keyboard fader controller.

It would requires a dead stop. Something at position "6" of the X1 fader. The way I do it is to adjust the gain down to a good level when the fader top up at "6".


Is this the correct way to do it or can X1 be setup in a way that when the controller reach it's max, the X1 fader will stop at "0" ?


Cheers and thanks!

tomixornot


I've been mixing with the mouse wheel mostly. 

However I'm currently working on a mix that requires fast fader movement (gradually, but fast) moving from min to max. 

Pulling the fader down to the bottom is not an issue, but building it up, is just not fast enough to stop correctly at "0" position of the fader, either using mouse, wheel or mapping it to a keyboard fader controller.

It would requires a dead stop. Something at position "6" of the X1 fader. The way I do it is to adjust the gain down to a good level when the fader top up at "6".


Is this the correct way to do it or can X1 be setup in a way that when the controller reach it's max, the X1 fader will stop at "0" ?


Cheers and thanks!

Why not use envelopes? You may also be able to adjust controllers after the fact.
 
Brian

Stone House Studios

tomixornot


I've been mixing with the mouse wheel mostly. 

However I'm currently working on a mix that requires fast fader movement (gradually, but fast) moving from min to max. 

Pulling the fader down to the bottom is not an issue, but building it up, is just not fast enough to stop correctly at "0" position of the fader, either using mouse, wheel or mapping it to a keyboard fader controller.

It would requires a dead stop. Something at position "6" of the X1 fader. The way I do it is to adjust the gain down to a good level when the fader top up at "6".


Is this the correct way to do it or can X1 be setup in a way that when the controller reach it's max, the X1 fader will stop at "0" ?


Cheers and thanks!

Why not use envelopes? You may also be able to adjust controllers after the fact.
 
Brian

I'm using the automation to record the fader movement on a bus and that produce an envelope - do you mean to tweak the envelope manually after the automation-write process it ? I don't know the envelope edit very well, it seems moving it with the mouse (the only way I knew) is quite tedious. Perhaps there is a bunch of envelope edits I still need to learn.

Yep - break open the manual and start reading about envelopes.

You have access to all sorts of possibilities

Yes automation is done two ways.
Real time recording and by tweaking the line by placing nodes and pulling them around.
A good tip for instant volume changes on an area is to (enable automation-volume) highlight the timeline above an area then put your mouse above the line in the clip and pull up or down. 
It makes nodes at both ends of the selected area.

if you pull it way down then want it to quickly go back to zero, just double clik it.

Thanks Brian, Bristol_Jonesey, M_Glenn_M and timidi.

Sorry for getting back late to this thread, as I'm testing out the idea.

After reading up the manual, and recording the automation with manual tweaking, I think I've got what I'm looking for.

I've also found that making the bus lane really fat horizontally helps the manual tweaking process!

I'm still unsure how to draw/apply those sine/etc...wave envelopes, and how to make it in sync of the tempo.. it'a bit advance for me right now.

So, here is my longer story..

I'm trying to mix a realistic brass/horn section from a combination of Garritan jazz (2 trumpets and 1 trombone, minimal approach) and 2 different Dimension Pro brass patches (for fattening the mids/low a little, mixed at very low volume).

From what I've learned from Garritan jazz, it make use of the mod wheel for volume expression and encourage user to move it a little as you play. This gives more realistic dynamic.

I'm applying similar idea to a bus, so all instruments including Garritan are recorded first without volume expression. All tracks will still have different note velocities depending how I play it - so there're not completely without any dynamic. 

All tracks are spread out in the stereo field. Both Dim Pro are panned far (but not extreme) left / right. Garritan trumpets, one panned 10 o'clock and the other panned at 2 o'clock. Trombone is placed near center. All sound do not have the same timbre, and only one Garritan trumpet have the brightest sound, the other is a duller sounding trumpet.

I would quantize the Dim pro track (and copy it to the other Dim Pro, so both are playing the same line with a different timbre). For the 3 Garritan tracks, I would record it separately, even if there are all playing the same line, but at different octaves, and clean up off timing notes a little with the mouse and leave it none-quantized.

Also, pitch bend is only applied to trombone, as in real playing, not to trumpets and the Dim Dro tracks. Hmm..as far as I understand about trumpet - you can't pitch bend it right ?? Correct me if this is wrong.

When all is done, I will automate the fader on the bus a little as the brass/horns are playing, like what Garritan users will normally do using the mod wheel.

I found that setting the fader to the max (and turn down the bus gain) is the best approach, as I need the fader (keyboard controller) end to stop the movement, so I'm moving the fader around 90-100% range, similar to using a mod wheel.

The bus generated looks extremely busy! Some practices are required for a good automation take.


The fast fader movement is for the brass/horns volume diminuendo/cresendo during long notes. And this is the only part of the envelope generated that requires further tweak.

I can also have the option to setup a second bus for generic mix of the first bus if needed.

Sill have room for improvements, but the brass/horn is so much more realistic now then just playing a single brass patch. Also, if there is a chord, each track would do only one voice.

Use envelopes. 

You can of course turn on the write automation and record the movements of the faders...... but.... I choose not to use that method.

I insert my envelopes 100% manually. I insert the envelope and then add my nodes manually as well. Double click the envelope to add a note..... right click to remove it.   I zoom in to make precise edits.  Using this method, I can actually grab just a few notes of a solo or fill or  fade in or out at whatever rate I need. I can ease something in or slam the door shut on something. 

By duplicating the nodes on 2 tracks with different guitar/piano solo takes, I can easily decide which part I want....or.... as I did in the example below.... on the piano tracks 13 & 12 @ measure 17 & 18... I can use the envelopes in this manner and example to pick the first part of a piano fill from track 13...slam the door on it and finish the fill from the last part of a fill in track 12 with a fast fade before the note I don't want played. I actually did that 2 times in that picture. 

The end result of these 2 edits sounds like the piano player played the right fill the first time. It is flawless and seamless. 

If you follow the songs forum, this song will be posted there in December....then you can hear it. For now, you just have to be content to see the editing as it relates to your OP.

Hand-drawn automation is definitely the ticket for orchestral swells, because you can define them with such great precision. 

Double-click on the envelope to create a new node where you want the swell to begin, and do it again to mark the end point. Right-click on the segment between the nodes and choose a slow or fast curve (slow usually works best for orchestral swells). You can then move the nodes up and down during playback until you're happy with the rate and extent of change. You're like a conductor who can conduct a passage over and over until the orchestra gets it just right - no need to move faders/mod wheels in real time and hope for the best.

Also note that you can automate either the MIDI or audio tracks. I prefer to automate the MIDI track, because typically multiple instruments are routed to a common stereo audio track and it sounds more natural to swell each instrument/section independently. I'll even make a point of giving each instrument a slightly different envelope, e.g. making the cellos come up slightly faster than the violins.

Experiment with different automation shapes between the nodes. In addition to the basic fast and slow shapes, try an "S" curve made with three nodes joining a fast segment to a slow segment (or vice versa). This tends to sound more natural. For very short transitions, the curve shape doesn't matter and a plain linear segment will do.

I use the Roland EV-7 Expression pedal (the good one with Extended range more like a B3 peadl) first. then automate midi volume to balance parts then automate Synth audio (by hand via automation lane) or Buss automate groups (again by hand). Lately, I've been using Vianna Ensemble/MIR pro for mixing orchestra stuff. WOW!!! Check it out! You should check out the Broadway Big Band Collection. That's what I use! ;) Best Big Band horn samples. Multi velocity/intervals sampled to M9 in both directions (much like Vienna interval sampling). Multi mics to choose from. When using Vienna I like to use the Velocity crossfade mode for realistic dynamic crossfaded between velocity layers (quadruples your polyphony but worth it).