Since this turning into a scoring thread to some extent I'll put my two cents in on the subject. How do you score a saw wave and 10 other custom voices in any notation editor? I know many the more experienced notation artists might have somewhat of an answer. But the point is that it seems people expect Sonar to have a notation-staff veiw with all notation abilities of the instruments and their abilities contained in Sonar. As if the Staff Veiw should write the complex articulations and voices variants. I don't think that's ever been possible. As in writing a score in the old fashioned way, the notes go down first and the embellishments are written afterward. I don't see much difference in playing in a midi peice or peices and then transferring that score to a notation editor for finishing.
The problems with embedding a full scoring-notation editor into a DAW such as Sonar could involve many complex problems in code, who already has written the working code to do so, how to acurately notate some of the modern instruments involved, etc. I think you see what I'm saying.

...wicked


Actually in all serious I hope after they give workflow the thorough re-vamping they're alleging with X1 that they turn their power towards the engine and all that entails (evolving audiosnap, varispeed, etc). X1 is what they needed to try and do though, and I'm looking forward to it.

I think exactly this way too.  I think this UI redesign was to give Sonar the look and extreme ease of use it needed. Sonar have a lot of features already and I think they made a good choice.  Altough, since this workflow step is made, the next one should be more internal, tweek oriented.  Just finish everything to be shure there is no "half-feature" and that Sonar excel in everything it already offer, no half-new-features, just perfecting what is already there... in 64 bits... it will be second to none...

pbognar

• Apps like Live, Acid, and Fruity Loops will probably never add staff editing, because they are targeted for a specific user base (the exception being Acoustica's MixCraft which added a staff editor in version 5)

I suppose I may have a more robust need for Sonar. I'm not a bedroom producer.  I have a professional studio downtown chicago. I'm pulling for Sonar more than you know.  Even though Sonar can't touch some of the functions of my ICON board,  Pro-Tools can't touch Sonar's Music Creation DAW. There is absolutely no way that Live, Acid or Fruity loops would ever enter my studio. Also - after investigating sonars staff view, there is absolutely no way I would ever use it. Neither would I use Sonars video capabilites since its so limited. 
 
All I'm saying is that the DAW portion of Sonar is absolutely fantastic.  Cakewalk - please don't screw up the DAW with slight improvements to side apps.
 
Cakewalk - you make a great DAW. Please keep focusing on the DAW.  X1 is an excellent business move!! 
 
In 1969 McDonalds resturant put the Big Mac on its menu.  It is a brilliant long term business objective to never touch it. Same recipe and same taste for 40 + years.   Its a business move.  Go somewhere else if you want something else.  Thats the McDonalds business objective that has worked for over 40 years. 
 
If you want to be #1 then you have to beat #1 at its game or present a pheonominal alternative. Trust me - I would absolutely love to remove my ICON and Pro-Tools from my studio.  Having Cakewalk focus on staff writing or video editing is not going to help it be the #1 DAW. That would be a horrible business move. But of course selfish people aren't concerned about business. They just want what they want.   
 

That's an interesting comparison with McDonalds menu.  McDonalds menu has evolved over time and includes many items.  McDonalds does not want you to go 'somewhere else', that's why they offer salads, milkshakes, cookies etc etc...many things that are not just burgers.

However they do not, as far as I can tell, have either a staff view or Matrix view

tomas gato


Don't worry

Be happy!!!

X1 will change.................everything.

Bapu said so

and I, for one

believe him

See, I knew was right!


The marketing wizards at IBM once determined, all you have to do is get 3% of the potential population to buy into your idea/product and you're on your way to market domination.

Yeah, you gotta start early with this kinda stuff......

My wish is for an end to having to think. I don't wanna think about it anymore.......I just want it all to get out of my head!

LpMike75


That's an interesting comparison with McDonalds menu.  McDonalds menu has evolved over time and includes many items.  McDonalds does not want you to go 'somewhere else', that's why they offer salads, milkshakes, cookies etc etc...many things that are not just burgers.

However they do not, as far as I can tell, have either a staff view or Matrix view

Here's their staff view:
 

bapu

tomas gato


Don't worry

Be happy!!!

X1 will change.................everything.

Bapu said so

and I, for one

believe him

See, I knew was right!


The marketing wizards at IBM once determined, all you have to do is get 3% of the potential population to buy into your idea/product and you're on your way to market domination.

And then Microsoft completely ate IBM's lunch in the computer business, and they spent a few years mainly living off making crap phones. It's a miracle they're still round at all.

gtgarner

I'm not a bedroom producer.

No indeed, you just told us you are a coder.

I have a professional studio downtown chicago.

Are you a coder or do you have a studio? Make up your mind! Or maybe you have a studio but are not the engineer? (Which makes you mentioning that you have a studio irrelevant).

Even though Sonar can't touch some of the functions of my ICON board,  Pro-Tools can't touch Sonar's Music Creation DAW. There is absolutely no way that Live, Acid or Fruity loops would ever enter my studio.

Live is very good at what it does. There is no reason not to have it in the studio.

All I'm saying is that the DAW portion of Sonar is absolutely fantastic.  Cakewalk - please don't screw up the DAW with slight improvements to side apps.

You don't have much trust in the bakers do you? As far as I am concerned Cakewalk can do whatever they want with the staff view. Clearly there is a demand for improvement there. I might not use it but it would be selfish to be against improvements in that area.

  Cakewalk - you make a great DAW. Please keep focusing on the DAW.  X1 is an excellent business move!!

It started as a sequencer. Staff notation seems to fit that picture.

 In 1969 McDonalds resturant put the Big Mac on its menu.  It is a brilliant long term business objective to never touch it. Same recipe and same taste for 40 + years.   Its a business move.  Go somewhere else if you want something else.  Thats the McDonalds business objective that has worked for over 40 years.

Great analogy because every six months at most McD add new stuff to their menu to try and please everyone!

If you want to be #1 then you have to beat #1 at its game or present a pheonominal alternative.

Indeed. So how are Cakewalk going to compete with Pro Tools' video features?

Trust me - I would absolutely love to remove my ICON and Pro-Tools from my studio.

Why? That makes no sense? Unless you just own the place and don't actually use the ICON and Pro Tools. Then it makes sense because you just want to cut costs.

Having Cakewalk focus on staff writing or video editing is not going to help it be the #1 DAW. That would be a horrible business move. But of course selfish people aren't concerned about business. They just want what they want.   

So basically you just described yourself as selfish. If you say so...

UnderTow

For X2 I would like:

- Universal Track Architecture. I want to be able to route audio/synth tracks to other audio tracks. This would remove the need for busses entirely.
- Nested folders. (Might be in X1 but I doubt it). This would improve project organisation immensely.
- Full automation overhaul. (This has been discussed many times. No need to go into details here).
- Pencil tool. (To edit waveforms directly).
- Ability to split/cut/paste video. (Not to edit the video itself as such but to be able to simple re-conforming of video edits etc. A must for post work).
- Video follows edits. (For instance when you drag a clip, the video follows as you drag the clip. Another essential post tool).
- Proper SMPT integration. For instance an easy way to set the grid to frames. Support for the various frame rates and drop frames etc.
- Import selected tracks/busses from other projects. (Might be in X1).

Ah well... many more suggestions here: http://puretone.nl/sonar-wiki/

UnderTow