Absolute Time is SMPTE.

John T

There are indeed a decent number of your 300k customers out there, but it is without question a shrinking market, not a growing one. I don't suspect that we'll see other companies adopting a strategy that Avid themselves appear to be tentatively moving away from.

It is indeed a shrinking market but I believe there might be some money to be made in the 5K - 20K market. Cakewalk are nearly in that market with the V700 solution. (Unless prices have dropped. I have not been following that too much).

Frankly, I don't think Cakewalk have that much to do to make Sonar appealing to that market but they do have to start paying attention to details and consistency. For instance they made a good move by adding EuCon support but it seems they are not really keeping it up to date. That is the kind of thing that is not acceptable in the pro market.

There are other things that bother me like continually changing short cuts. It is not a big deal for a home studio (you have time to reassign keys to whatever you like) but it is a waste of time for pro studios. These seem like small insignificant things but they are crucial for a DAW that wants to appeal to a particular market segment.

UnderTow

What "continually changing shortcuts"?

John T


What "continually changing shortcuts"?

Well for one, in X1 B will be bound to opening the browser it seems according to one of the videos. Previously it was assigned to the scrub tool. At least by default. I have it assigned to bounce to clips as I use that more often but the point is that every version of Sonar there are new key bindings. You can export and then reimport key bindings to keep your own custom assignments but then when you go to another studio or someone else is working at your studio, everything has changed. You could of course bring your own assignments on a USB stick or whatever but that is extra time and work and if you forget to set things back at the end you might be causing problems for the next person using the set.

I much prefer fixed key bindings that work with fixed modifiers. Like in PT, pressing ALT always applies what you are doing to all. SHIFT-ALT always applies to all selected. Etc. This is consistent in all views. That is important.

Anyway, this is just one example and I think it is a good example because it shows that it is not something that would cost a lot (or any) money to implement. It is just about thinking things through properly and being aware of what is expected in a pro environment.

UnderTow

Well, hang on.

A new approach to key short cuts in the first release of their next gen version of Sonar is not "continually changing". It's been largely consistent on this front through from Pro Audio, so for well over a decade. No continuously changing there.

Secondly, it's already been stated in various videos and threads that you can still use the old Sonar key mapping if you wish. So no "continuously changing" there, either.

John T


Well, hang on.

A new approach to key short cuts in the first release of their next gen version of Sonar is not "continually changing". It's been largely consistent on this front through from Pro Audio, so for well over a decade. No continuously changing there.

Things change nearly every version. Sometimes it will be a direct key binding and sometimes it will be a menu shortcut. Like the fact that right click on a track header then press D for delete track became right click L in version 7 I think. When I asked how this happened someone from Cakewalk posted that he had auto-generated the shortcuts. Not exactly what you would call a well thought out plan! This is not the way to design a pro application IMO.

Secondly, it's already been stated in various videos and threads that you can still use the old Sonar key mapping if you wish. So no "continuously changing" there, either.

I addressed this in my previous post. Like I said, it doesn't seem like a big deal but in my experience in working in multiple studios where multiple engineers work, assignable key bindings really isn't the best solution at that level. A well thought out fixed key binding plan makes more sense for that kind of setup IMO. Of course opinions on this differ. That is OK. :)

My main point is that I don't think Cakewalk have far to go, I am just not sure they always focus on the right areas fro improvement or that they take enough time to thoroughly think things through when they add new features. I am not the only one commenting about features not being fully implemented...

UnderTow

gtgarner

pbognar

• Apps like Live, Acid, and Fruity Loops will probably never add staff editing, because they are targeted for a specific user base (the exception being Acoustica's MixCraft which added a staff editor in version 5)

I suppose I may have a more robust need for Sonar. I'm not a bedroom producer.  I have a professional studio downtown chicago. I'm pulling for Sonar more than you know.  Even though Sonar can't touch some of the functions of my ICON board,  Pro-Tools can't touch Sonar's Music Creation DAW. There is absolutely no way that Live, Acid or Fruity loops would ever enter my studio. Also - after investigating sonars staff view, there is absolutely no way I would ever use it. Neither would I use Sonars video capabilites since its so limited. 
 
All I'm saying is that the DAW portion of Sonar is absolutely fantastic.  Cakewalk - please don't screw up the DAW with slight improvements to side apps.
 
Cakewalk - you make a great DAW. Please keep focusing on the DAW.  X1 is an excellent business move!! 
 
In 1969 McDonalds resturant put the Big Mac on its menu.  It is a brilliant long term business objective to never touch it. Same recipe and same taste for 40 + years.   Its a business move.  Go somewhere else if you want something else.  Thats the McDonalds business objective that has worked for over 40 years. 
 
If you want to be #1 then you have to beat #1 at its game or present a pheonominal alternative. Trust me - I would absolutely love to remove my ICON and Pro-Tools from my studio.  Having Cakewalk focus on staff writing or video editing is not going to help it be the #1 DAW. That would be a horrible business move. But of course selfish people aren't concerned about business. They just want what they want.   
 

In hindsight, I should not have even responded to the notion of dropping the staff view in this thread, because the discussion is buried in a thread called "Sonar X2 Wish List".  It becomes a one sided discussion, because most are going to bypass this thread, simply because of the title.
 
@gtgarner - I respect your needs in a professional environment, but Sonar is what it is.  When you say "Cakewalk - please don't screw up the DAW with slight improvements to side apps." - are you referring to the staff view?  I would not consider that a side app - it's just as germain as the PRV - just another way of looking at MIDI data.  If you don't use the staff view, don't open it.
 
Your requirements for improvements are born out from how YOU use Sonar.  There any number of "types" of users - and they all vote for Sonar with their dollars.
 
The reason I even mentioned  Live, Acid, and Fruity Loops was directed to those who were taking about the lack of need for a staff view in electronic music.  That's my fault - I should have made that clear in my reply.
 
@all - if you you are going to start adding feature requests in this thread, why not just list features you'd like to see added or improved, instead of features which should be stripped out.
 
If you'd like Sonar to take an entirely different direction - maybe you are using the wrong tool.
 
 

That whole "features that should be removed" line of thinking is just silly chest-puffing. Why would they bother removing something that's already there? However lame you might think a feature is, it's near certain that somebody uses it, and leaving it in requires zero effort, unlike removing it, which requires more than zero effort.

My wishes:
 
1. AMD Eyefinity and Nvidia Surround support. Multi-monitor has been giving way to a single, large desktop that Windows treats as a large monitor. The game developers have embraced these APIs but it would be awesome if Sonar used them as well for window placement.
 
2. CUDA and Stream support for final processing. There's a heap of power available for that final mixdown. I would love to see Sonar to put all 256+ cores to work on speedy processing.
 
 

macaw


My wishes:
 
1. AMD Eyefinity and Nvidia Surround support. Multi-monitor has been giving way to a single, large desktop that Windows treats as a large monitor. The game developers have embraced these APIs but it would be awesome if Sonar used them as well for window placement.

I believe that Windows support 4 screens by default, no? Of course more could be nice but I imagine having 6 screens as a single desktop (or more) as one surface might get in the way of the sound field from your monitors.

 
2. CUDA and Stream support for final processing. There's a heap of power available for that final mixdown. I would love to see Sonar to put all 256+ cores to work on speedy processing.

I am all in favour of more processing power but I suspect that the knowledge and complexity needed to implement this kind of thing in CUDA would be cost prohibitive for Cakewalk. And also, I think that IF Cakewalk chose to do anything about processing power, something like Merging's MassCore technology would be a better route to travel. All you need is a multi-core processor to work. No need for proprietary video card technology. Processors will be getting more and more cores. Harnessing their power by by-passing the OS overhead seems like a better investment to me.

That said, I don't really think investing in anything to do with processing power would make much sense commercially. We already have massive amounts of power available today from off the shelf solutions but more importantly, Intel and AMD are doing all the hard work for Cakwewalk. Even if they do nothing, Cakewalk know that in roughly 18 months the new off the shelf solutions will be about twice as powerful. How much more power do we need? In how long will even the cheapest off the shelf processors be overkill for even the most complex audio projects?

UnderTow