• SONAR
  • Does Cakewalk support actually exist anymore? (p.4)
2017/10/29 02:51:30
michaelnuzum
Audioicon-
 
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
 
Either do or do not, there is no try.........(or something like that).
2017/10/29 13:19:10
BobF
Anderton
Audioicon
I fairness and I should say I am one of the most critical of Cakewalk and companies in general but Support across the board are almost non-existent for most companies and forums have taken over.

You have to live with it. 

 
You are correct this isn't just about Cakewalk. In general, people want to pay the lowest price possible. They don't always consider the practical implications of paying lower prices. For example I avoid the self-checkout machines in grocery stores because I would prefer to see humans employed. But it's a losing battle. Stores that used to have a dozen lanes with checkout people and baggers still have the dozen lanes...handled by maybe one person, or two people when it's really busy. It's probably small comfort to the unemployed checkout people that they're paying a dollar less for groceries.
 
I think the future is no support from manufacturers, but instead, for-profit companies dedicated solely to support. Another possibility is companies turning support into a profit center, and charging for support past the first 90 days. This is becoming more and more common. It discourages frivolous complaints, and pays for additional staffing. 
 
Then again, banks want you to do everything online or at ATMs so they can get rid of tellers. Now pay attention because our menus have changed recently. If you disagree with me, press 1. If you agree, press 2. Para espanol, oprima 3. To access the forum directory, press 4. To speak to a customer representative, press 5. Your estimated wait time is 1 hour, 46 minutes. Have a nice day!
 




Every time I get pointed toward self checkout I ask where I clock in to get started.
 
Initial reaction aside, in the long run it would be better to be up front about support options and expectations.
2017/10/29 18:50:16
Anderton
I really think paid support beyond 90 days is the answer.
 
  • It would discourage people from adding to support's workload for questions they could get answered in seconds by searching the documentation of visiting the forum.
  • It wouldn't add to the price of the program. This matters because people who don't need support wouldn't have to subsidize those who do (or think they do).
  • Not having free support is no longer considered out of the ordinary.
  • The money paid for support could finance a) adding more support people, and b) solving issues that cause support problems. 
2017/10/29 20:16:38
abacab
Bottom line here is that a company should meet stated expectations, in order to provide a good customer experience.  Especially those expectations promoted on company sales websites and user account pages, etc.  That is essentially a contract between buyer and seller, that a product comes with a stated level of service and support.
 
If you want to stay in business, then if you say you are going to do something, do it!  No excuses.  There are certainly reasons for failing to do so, but no excuses are acceptable.  Apologies maybe, but then show you are trying harder.
 
Better to do away with free support, than stating on paper that you have support, but not delivering timely responses.
 
I think a paid model would be well supported by those who need a fast response time.  And for the new customers, I think 90 days free support, or whatever to get the product installed and activated should be plenty.
2017/10/29 22:25:34
vladasyn
I am tired of low quality products across the spectrum that require support on every step. Let's see
I needed support for my Windows updates and installations, Motherboard, my Fire Wire card, my Computer Case, My Power Supply, My KVM Switch. My KVM Switch supposed to switch between 3 computers- well- it can't switch, unless I turn 1st computer off, or it blinking (Display Port). I had issues with my Presonus Audio interface (Not compatible with new computer), Motu Audio interface (The Ethernet Switch died), multiple issues with Kontrol keyboard and software, Multiple issues with Maschine. Issues with Novation Peak module, Izotope software, Waves software, Continuata downloader, 8Dio sample instrument, Engine, Carbon Electra, Steinberg VST collection, Air Music software, Waldorf hardware and software,  and many other small issues with individual software synths. All in one year. So when I have next expected issue with anything I touch and I have to call tech support, I want to start with "Your piece of c... software does not work- get it together!". I have full time day job. I dont have time for you all tech support people- if you don't want calls- don't release unfinished products! In my imagination, software should be tested on major platforms and with major software vendors. The stuff gets released without proper testing and nobody is responsible for anything. If it was free software given to us as a gift, then there will be no complaints. But if we pay for it, we should expect it to work. Not "may be" not 'if", but just work. I get it- there a lot of software out there, hard to make everything compatible. But I am tired of being free beta tester and spend my personal time on fixing issues that should of been fixed before release. I am also understaffed at work and constantly tired. I troubleshoot humans for living. I have to tech support my patients all day long, when i come home, I dont want to continue working- i want to relax and enjoy making music. Not answering 10 e-mails that start with "Can you send us a screenshot?" I have unfixed problems everywhere, because half of the issues does not get addressed. I abandoned things because they were not working correctly but I paid for it any way. This has to stop. Accountability should be the key. 
2017/10/29 23:52:43
rspagnuolo
Two thoughts:
1) I think that Anderton and others are correct about paid support beyond 90 days being the future.
2) Related; would posting videos about solving certain problems, made by Sonarians that have the know-how and desire, fill a niche? (Probably too time consuming?)
2017/10/30 00:02:37
abacab
vladasyn
I am tired of low quality products across the spectrum that require support on every step. Let's see
I needed support for my Windows updates and installations, Motherboard, my Fire Wire card, my Computer Case, My Power Supply, My KVM Switch. My KVM Switch supposed to switch between 3 computers- well- it can't switch, unless I turn 1st computer off, or it blinking (Display Port). I had issues with my Presonus Audio interface (Not compatible with new computer), Motu Audio interface (The Ethernet Switch died), multiple issues with Kontrol keyboard and software, Multiple issues with Maschine. Issues with Novation Peak module, Izotope software, Waves software, Continuata downloader, 8Dio sample instrument, Engine, Carbon Electra, Steinberg VST collection, Air Music software, Waldorf hardware and software,  and many other small issues with individual software synths. All in one year. So when I have next expected issue with anything I touch and I have to call tech support, I want to start with "Your piece of c... software does not work- get it together!". I have full time day job. I dont have time for you all tech support people- if you don't want calls- don't release unfinished products! In my imagination, software should be tested on major platforms and with major software vendors. The stuff gets released without proper testing and nobody is responsible for anything. If it was free software given to us as a gift, then there will be no complaints. But if we pay for it, we should expect it to work. Not "may be" not 'if", but just work. I get it- there a lot of software out there, hard to make everything compatible. But I am tired of being free beta tester and spend my personal time on fixing issues that should of been fixed before release. I am also understaffed at work and constantly tired. I troubleshoot humans for living. I have to tech support my patients all day long, when i come home, I dont want to continue working- i want to relax and enjoy making music. Not answering 10 e-mails that start with "Can you send us a screenshot?" I have unfixed problems everywhere, because half of the issues does not get addressed. I abandoned things because they were not working correctly but I paid for it any way. This has to stop. Accountability should be the key. 




All I could suggest here is to possibly simplify things a bit.  Expecting full compatibility in the Windows domain is asking for trouble.  Mixing multiple products, drivers, and software together into a configuration no developer or beta tester probably has ever dreamed of is pioneer territory.
 
I am saying this as someone who has spent their entire adult life working with computers as a day job.  Even so, I am continuously challenged at making all of the parts I have work together.  But that's what I do, and I enjoy being a tech-head.  So i can understand someone who just wants to turn on the computer, and make music, being frustrated.  But there are options...
2017/10/30 00:20:07
Anderton
Last night I spent 5 hours trying to figure out why my Intel NUC was showing constant reload errors for web sites, and also, why I couldn't update Windows. As to the NUC, I went to Intel's web site and ran the automatic driver updater. One of those updates was to the BIOS, so I did the update. For the next 30 minutes after doing the update, "Intel NUC" would flash on the screen, turn off, turn on, etc. I thought I had bricked the computer, so I turned it off. When I turned it back on, there was a "Your BIOS has been updated" message. Then I did the update for the wireless, and the web reload errors eventually stopped.
 
I still haven't figured out why Windows won't update. (And don't tell me how wonderful the Mac is...these days, I cross my fingers and pray whenever there's an update for my MacBook Pro. There was one update, can't remember which one, where the wi-fi was hosed...and there were other problems as well.)
 
All these Intel/Windows issues happened without my even touching SONAR, and I'm relatively savvy with computers. Yet the computer is the foundation upon which programs like SONAR must run. I could detail other issues I've had with software from other companies (the grass is not always greener on the other side), and a lot of them deal with interactions with Windows components as well. 
 
It is unreasonable to expect ANY company to know how to get their software to work with all permutations and combinations of hardware, which is especially bad for Windows. This isn't to excuse any legitimate bugs that may or may not exist in SONAR that cause incompatibilities, but there's a reason why I think many times when people experience "SONAR bugs," they're experiencing bugs with software that interacts with SONAR.
 
Several years ago in one of my Pro Sound News columns I said that in the future, keeping a computer-based recording system running reliably was only going to get worse. There are times when I would absolutely love to be wrong, but I don't think this was one of them.
 
 
2017/10/30 00:53:34
BobF
All true, Craig.  I think the most frustrating cases I've witnessed here are when someone doesn't yet know whether or not the problem is in SONAR or Windows/driver/VST, etc. AND they get the silent treatment.
 
In a huge number of cases the users don't help themselves either.  When problems are submitted with zero details, demanding a phone call because they've been a customer for xx years and other problems are submitted with detailed steps leading to the errors, which do you suppose gets looked at first?
2017/10/30 01:48:36
vladasyn
If I was recording guitars and drums, it would be much simpler. But I produce electronic music. The essence of it is to use hardware and software synths and effects. So I guess- I asked for it. I understand that it is hard for everybody. And Microsoft is like volcano now days- never know when it explodes... So we have to work together and help each other.  
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