I just installed it. Had a quick play and routed it out to sonar and created a template.
The mixer does nothing for me so I would probably do most of in sonar but I do like the sounds I got and will do some more with it tomorrow

Bit, are you sure you weren't listening to the demo's for the SSD4 platinum? 

I shall report back after more investigation. Don't see it replacing BFD2 for speed and diversity but that's not what it's for and for $20 it seemed churlish not to 

Steve

Middleman


Controversial response here but I am finding that plugins under the RTAS umbrella sound significantly better than their VST counterparts. I don't know why but I have run tests in VST and RTAS for the same plugin and there is a clarity and depth on RTAS side of things that I am not getting from VST. Also for the engineering crowd, files don't sum when you compare VST to RTAS although its very challenging getting the same settings accurately which could contribute some of the differences. The drum tracks I get in Superior 2 in RTAS are very realistic under VST same track, duller and not as 3D sounding. I just wonder if developers have to make compromises when porting to the VST framework.

Okay, since no one bites... ;)

You mention clarity, depth, 3D and I'm wondering if this could have anything to do w/ the way PT handles stereo, which, if I'm not mistaken in my choice of terms, would be dual mono (what I mean is that, for example, it splits stereo files into File X Left and File X right.

I really don't have the technical knowledge to confirm whether or not this could be related, so I'm just throwing it out there. 

I'll have to test the RTAS vs Audio Unit and VST on my side.

Re: the machine gun demos
Mr. Slate said on KVR that those sequences were played by a real live human. By a drummer whose nickname is "The Machine".

Rain

Okay, since no one bites... ;)

You mention clarity, depth, 3D and I'm wondering if this could have anything to do w/ the way PT handles stereo, which, if I'm not mistaken in my choice of terms, would be dual mono (what I mean is that, for example, it splits stereo files into File X Left and File X right.

I really don't have the technical knowledge to confirm whether or not this could be related, so I'm just throwing it out there. 

I'll have to test the RTAS vs Audio Unit and VST on my side.

I am not even sure if the difference with dual mono could be tested but let me know how your tests turn out.

Here's what I've tried. 

1st thing I did was to load a mixdown I've just received in both Studio One and PT and use a single Waves plug-in in each application, so that I could simply use the same factory preset for both the VST and RTAS version.

RESULT:  files didn't completely cancel each other, and I could hear and see the frequencies dancing on the meter starting at around 2 k. But we're talking about lower volume stuff - peaking around -50 db.

2nd I loaded a stereo instance of Superior Drummer in both PT and S1, picked up a midi loop and bounced.

RESULT: difference was much more obvious this time - frequencies registered everywhere on the multimeter and as loud as -30, even if the actual audio files were much quieter than the mixdown I tried in my first test.

I assumed that this was maybe due to the fact that the same midi sequence would not necessarily always trigger the exact same samples every time it played back through SD. 

But I did the test quickly in Logic using the Audio Unit version and rendered two copies of the same loop - the two AU bounces completely cancelled out. 

I then compared the Audio Unit bounces from Logic to the Audio Unit bounce I had done in Studio One. The difference was just as obvious as w/ VST or RTAS.

Finally, I went back to Studio One and bounced both a VST and a Audio Unit instance of Superior - the cancelled each other perfectly.

So I would be tempted to think that the difference may have more to do w/ the host than the plug-in format. Obviously, this little improvised test doesn't take into account that one app may have a 64 bit engine or such. And it doesn't really tell us if RTAS sounds better or worst or if it's only the PT engine.

Unfortunately, I don't have FXPansion's VST to RTAS adapter so I can't try to bounce a VST in PT. But I'm tempted to believe they'd be pretty similar.

Wow...that's insane man. At this point, I'm locked into using SONAR, so I'm going to try and emulate my buddy's SSD sound best I can, even if for some reason his PT interface has a slight "edge". Did I mention how nice sounding that Smack! plugin is??? Erggggghhhhh......

I agree, what sounds best is subjective and many people would need to hear and make that call. There is a difference in the sound however between VST and RTAS, at least between X1 and PT. That difference to my ears is more punch in the low end and more clarity in the high end. caminitic, your ears confirm what I have been hearing as well.

I thought, although its been a few months back that the I did the test, that X1 and PT summed with very low level differences. So that's where I came to the conclusion that the VST vs RTAS had more of an impact.

Kind of flies in the face of all those arguments (sorry debates) on here about how software has little to with the sound whilst hardware has everything to do with it. 
A view which I considered to be the more likely.

Steve

Middleman


I agree, what sounds best is subjective and many people would need to hear and make that call. There is a difference in the sound however between VST and RTAS, at least between X1 and PT. That difference to my ears is more punch in the low end and more clarity in the high end. caminitic, your ears confirm what I have been hearing as well.

I thought, although its been a few months back that the I did the test, that X1 and PT summed with very low level differences. So that's where I came to the conclusion that the VST vs RTAS had more of an impact.

Yeah, looking back, it's puzzling to say the least. 


The mixdown I processed was a 6 minute music piece (part of a soundtrack, so to speak) w/ a very wide dynamic range and a wide variety of sounds - piano, vocals, percussions, electronic drums and acoustic percussions, sound effects etc. 


I would have expected to hear more difference using that piece than using a simple loop using the same instrument, w/ all faders at unity gain and no panning whatsoever, the only difference between both being the plug-in format. 


If anyone has any idea as to what would cause this, I'm all ears. I thought internal processing Bit Depth may have something to do w/ it, but I wasn't expecting such a difference.


I have an option to work w/ dual-mono files in Logic, so I may try to do a few more comparisons between AU and RTAS later today, and see how/if they differ.



EDIT: I'm thinking of something. Superior Drummer has an option to bounce internally. Technically, if the plug-in format made any difference, an internal bounce using the RTAS version should differ from an internal bounce using VST or AU, agreed? I may give it a try too.

twaddle


Kind of flies in the face of all those arguments (sorry debates) on here about how software has little to with the sound whilst hardware has everything to do with it. 
A view which I considered to be the more likely.

Steve

The first thing which people usually point out as a culprit for difference is pan laws. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the pan law is in Studio One and I couldn't find anything in the help file or in the preferences. I'm tempted to believe it's the standard -3 db. 


Nevertheless, I don't think it'd have any impact in such a case, when dealing w/ a single stereo track, w/ all the levels and pans at their default "0" position.

Similarly, as I mentioned last night, the fact that Pro Tools handles stereo differently may or may not have an impact (anyone w/ insight on that would be welcome to enlighten me).



I know I tend to get good results faster in Pro Tools when starting a mix, but I always blamed that on ergonomics and the fact that I'm not as used to it as I am to Logic, so instead of thinking 3 steps ahead, I'm always focused on what I'm doing at the very moment. I don't have any habits, good or bad.  Also, even more importantly, since I don't use it to record and create, it doesn't really give me the option to go back and re-record this or that or to try a different drum sound, so I'm focused on making what's in front of me work, something I have a hard thing restraining myself to when working in my main app. But as you see, that's got everything to do w/ me and not the actual software.