EDIT: I'm thinking of something. Superior Drummer has an option to bounce internally. Technically, if the plug-in format made any difference, an internal bounce using the RTAS version should differ from an internal bounce using VST or AU, agreed? I may give it a try too.

Know what? Yes those internal SD bounces are different, in volume for starters. The RTAS version is a bit louder and peaks at -2.6 db while the Audio Unit one registers -3.1.


But even after I match the volumes, they still don't cancel each other. 


I also tried bouncing a little piano line w/ Sample Tank in both PT and Logic. Both files were as loud, but they didn't cancel and the Pro Tools/RTAS one registered frequencies between 10k and 20k on the final C which just weren't there in the Audio Unit bounce. These were once again fairly low in volume. But as with anything, I guess that if you push the volume, you'll start to hear them.


So I guess that, yes, RTAS plug-ins do sound different, at least some of them.

I was about ready to buy SSD Essential just because it had a nice-sounding kick drum. But then I remembered Drumwerks. That's where you can buy individual drum samples for 5 bucks apiece, or collections for $15-$20. Quality samples, too. In addition to the kick I went there after, I also picked up a great-sounding snare. Total cost: $7.98 plus 15 minutes to put them into a Kontakt instrument and scratch SSD Essentials from the list.

bitflipper


I was about ready to buy SSD Essential just because it had a nice-sounding kick drum. But then I remembered Drumwerks. That's where you can buy individual drum samples for 5 bucks apiece, or collections for $15-$20. Quality samples, too. In addition to the kick I went there after, I also picked up a great-sounding snare. Total cost: $7.98 plus 15 minutes to put them into a Kontakt instrument and scratch SSD Essentials from the list.

Thanks Bitflipper, I got quite excited when I saw this. 
I've posted on the FX forum that it would be great if they could have something like this where instead of buying more than we needed (or wanted) we could just have a pick and mix section and buy individual kit pieces. Of course this they said would me a major headache as they would run out of licences in no time which I guess kind of makes sense. I'm guessing you don't need a license to use the drum works samples?


I really wish drumworks would have solo drums for their demo.s and that we could hear them unprocessed instead of having to listen with music.
I really don't need to hear them accompanied by bad rock music thanks. Very off putting.

I see also that none of the main drumplers such as BFD2 & Eco, EZdrummer & Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, Steven Slate, Session Drummer 3 or even Kontakt are listed in the FAQ as being compatible.
I know in BFD2 (Not Eco) you can load in your own samples so I would have thought it might at least have made the list.
Can't see any info about velocity layers or mic channels either.

Steve

They're 24-bit 44.1KHz wave files, so they'll be compatible with any sample player that knows how to play a wave file. No license key, no dongle. You get a link to an unencrypted zip file. I will no doubt be visiting them again.

There is a link on each entry that says "more info" or something like that, where you can see the details. The snare I picked up had 64 velocity layers for the standard articularion, 11 layers of flam, and 23 layers of sidestick. The kick samples had 32 layers for each of 2 tunings.

What you don't get are alternate microphone positions and adjustable bleed.

Rain

EDIT: I'm thinking of something. Superior Drummer has an option to bounce internally. Technically, if the plug-in format made any difference, an internal bounce using the RTAS version should differ from an internal bounce using VST or AU, agreed? I may give it a try too.

Know what? Yes those internal SD bounces are different, in volume for starters. The RTAS version is a bit louder and peaks at -2.6 db while the Audio Unit one registers -3.1.


But even after I match the volumes, they still don't cancel each other. 


I also tried bouncing a little piano line w/ Sample Tank in both PT and Logic. Both files were as loud, but they didn't cancel and the Pro Tools/RTAS one registered frequencies between 10k and 20k on the final C which just weren't there in the Audio Unit bounce. These were once again fairly low in volume. But as with anything, I guess that if you push the volume, you'll start to hear them.


So I guess that, yes, RTAS plug-ins do sound different, at least some of them.

Hi Rain,
This got me interested as well. I tried to replicate and compare the output of SupD in both X1 and PT10 and I just can't get matching output files. I know that Sup uses a common sample pool for their drums...that is, it installs the .wav files for each hit to a single place on my sample drive and then the Sup program draws on that pool for playback regardless of the plugin being VST or RTAS, but I think that the hits are multi-mapped for any specific velocity layer and then played round-robin to try and avoid machine-gunning (I think...could be wrong there) . What I can tell you is that the samples don't look the same to me on visual inspection when I use a common MIDI file and bounce the output, and if there is some round-robin type playback going on null tests are going to be tough....I certainly haven't been able to get a good null.

That said, when I A/B and just do a completely non-empirical anecdotal ears test it doesn't really sound different to my (admittedly imperfect) ears.

Dean

Razorwit

Hi Rain,
This got me interested as well. I tried to replicate and compare the output of SupD in both X1 and PT10 and I just can't get matching output files. I know that Sup uses a common sample pool for their drums...that is, it installs the .wav files for each hit to a single place on my sample drive and then the Sup program draws on that pool for playback regardless of the plugin being VST or RTAS, but I think that the hits are multi-mapped for any specific velocity layer and then played round-robin to try and avoid machine-gunning (I think...could be wrong there) . What I can tell you is that the samples don't look the same to me on visual inspection when I use a common MIDI file and bounce the output, and if there is some round-robin type playback going on null tests are going to be tough....I certainly haven't been able to get a good null.

That said, when I A/B and just do a completely non-empirical anecdotal ears test it doesn't really sound different to my (admittedly imperfect) ears.

Dean

Hi Dean,


That's what I thought I remembered - that there was a randomness on the samples playback. That would only make sense.


What's puzzling is that, bouncing the same part twice using one VST instance and one Audio Unit instance gives two identical files which cancel each other. Same thing w/ two consecutive bounces using the same plug-in format - as long as they're done in the same host.


Personally, I don't really mind and certainly wouldn't agonize over this in a real world situation - they may be different, but I didn't really find one to be better. Just different, and I probably wouldn't really notice if I weren't trying really hard to compare them using every tool I have. 

Rain

Hi Dean,


That's what I thought I remembered - that there was a randomness on the samples playback. That would only make sense.


What's puzzling is that, bouncing the same part twice using one VST instance and one Audio Unit instance gives two identical files which cancel each other. Same thing w/ two consecutive bounces using the same plug-in format - as long as they're done in the same host.


Personally, I don't really mind and certainly wouldn't agonize over this in a real world situation - they may be different, but I didn't really find one to be better. Just different, and I probably wouldn't really notice if I weren't trying really hard to compare them using every tool I have. 

Hey Rain,
Hunh, it nulls on consecutive bounces in a single host....wacky. Incidentally, like you I'm really primarily interested on an academic level as well...I use sup drummer every day in both hosts and don't know that I see a practical difference, but I am interested in why it's doing what it's doing. I wonder if the round-robin algo is different between plugins...something like in VST the layer playback starts on sample 1 and the RTAS starts on sample 2. Or maybe it's the right/left handling...doesn't Sup Drummer do alternating hits unless you specify a right-hand/left-hand specific hit on some drums?

Hmmm...may have to poke at this some more once I get done with actual work...I'm working on some pop country-western right now so I may be looking for excuses to stop and look at questions like these....:)


Dean

Turn off humanize/random in Superior Drummer. That will eliminate the random nature of the hits and give you a better test bed.

Middleman


Turn off humanize/random in Superior Drummer. That will eliminate the random nature of the hits and give you a better test bed.

Hi Middleman,
Yep, did that but I don't think that disables RR or automatic L/R hits....could be wrong tho...

Dean