javahut

Whomever thought of this new automation envelope scheme clearly doesn't extensively use automation envelopes. We need to be able to see all of them at once!!!
 

 
 

That's what I've said in the past. It has been obvious from Sonar 2.2 that Cakewalk coders don't use synth automation and don't edit the envelopes in any great detail. If they did, the whole automation system would have been improved at Sonar 3. The bug with a selected envelope loosing focus whould have been nailed along time ago. Instead, I'm left with a buggy automation in Sonar 8.5.3 and possibly face to deal with more frustration in X1 (if I buy it).

I'm writing this critique as I use automation exensively and it is essenatial to me that it is well implemented.

Simple fix... just leave all the envelopes in their specific colors... no need to make them a near invisible black when they're not selected for editing. Just bold the selected envelope for editing and bring it to the front of all the other envelopes. But don't make all the other envelopes basically invisible and mono toned!!!

EXACTLY ! This is how it's done in Sonar 8.5.3, except we have a bug there, don't we, which renders the whole envelope/node selection process as difficult and workflow destroying as can be.

I also have left a feature request at http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/featurerequest.aspx per my comments above. Please, we need many of you to click on the link above and write in to bring back the old, point and click way of editing envelopes and only if it is possible to have envelope isolation as just an option.

I have asked CW to revert back to the 8.5 track envelope management; this new thang is brain damage.

Willy Jones [Cakewalk
]

Noted - and if you have not done so please fill out this form here: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/featurerequest.aspx

Thanks, everyone, for chimin' in. I did put this in as a feature request. Sounds like Cakewalk may actually do something about it. Cross my fingers and hope they can do it by the next update. Pro Tools' automation envelopes are starting to look too good to me more & more every day. I really would hate to have to go there.

Another example of the "Clever Stupidity" run rampent in SX.

Color differences provide easy access and improved productivity. We have researched this for more than a hundred years. And yet, it was decided making things look "less cluttered" was more important than getting things done quickly.

10 years of slow but reasonable improvement abandoned for less clutter. And more useless space for the larger monitors that most users do not have. Especially when many users are moving to laptops.

No doubt next year will bring more of the same.

My dissapointment runs deep. Cuz instead of fixing all the bits in s8.5 the CW dudes decided to start over with the ribbon and one color and wasted space and lots of bugs and reduced prices and a clear sense of cleverness instead of usefullness.


What a world. What a world.

jm24


Another example of the "Clever Stupidity" run rampent in SX.

Color differences provide easy access and improved productivity. We have researched this for more than a hundred years. And yet, it was decided making things look "less cluttered" was more important than getting things done quickly.
...
My dissapointment runs deep.
...
What a world. What a world.

Did you fill out a feature request via the link provided by Willy Jones above?  If not, please do.  I did.

javahut


I miss the show/hide all envelopes. I miss being able to see what all envelopes are doing at any given time. It's tough to tweak envelopes in cases where multiple envelopes need to be tweaked relative to each other. Why do all other envelopes have to basically disappear color wise in order to highlight and bring forward the envelope being worked on? It makes no sense.
 
Example... I was trying to find the track and it's automation that was responsible for some cool delay effects so I could repeat and enhance it. The track was orignally created in 8.5, where I could "show all envelopes" and quickly find the source of the sound. In X1... I have yet to figure out how to see all the automation envelopes clearly at once. So I spent about 5-10 minutes trying to find the track and automation... only to have to give up so I could move on, and tell my musical partner I'd look for it later... because I couldn't find it among all the other tracks and the invisible automation envelopes.
 
Whomever thought of this new automation envelope scheme clearly doesn't extensively use automation envelopes. We need to be able to see all of them at once!!!
 
Simple fix... just leave all the envelopes in their specific colors... no need to make them a near invisible black when they're not selected for editing. Just bold the selected envelope for editing and bring it to the front of all the other envelopes. But don't make all the other envelopes basically invisible and mono toned!!!
 
Please, Cakewalk... make this one adjustment. Everything else about X1 I can live with or even like the new changes. This invisble automation envelope thing is almost a deal breaker... and entirely NOT USEFUL. Bring back the colors to all automation envelopes, along with the show/hide all envelopes, and even the ability to show/hide individual envelopes.
 

I couldn't agree with you more... I really do NOT like the new implementation... It's slower for me to work with, I can't tell one envelope from another until I activate it (select).... this is all so counter productive for me I can't beleive anyone really finds this better. I can understand that people want an easier way of being able to select their envelopes for editing as it is sometimes hard to click on the correct one... But this ain't it! Previuously I simply hid all envelopes except the one I wish to grab if there was an issue such as one on top of another.... But I don't run into that very often so it's need is far less than the basic editing itself which is now a true pain!

It doesn't appear they're ready to change this behavior either.... so it makes me sad as I'm gonna have to live with this for a while... until either they change it, or I find another program..... I never thought I'd be looking for one as I've loved Sonar all these years....

Keni

+1 to keeping colors visible when the envelopes aren't selected. It would make it a whole lot easier to select the right one right away.

having said that, I quite like the way Sonar handles envelopes now. But I've never really cared whether I had to deal with Automation Lanes or edit them in the tracks. I'm happy with either, but that's me

so to me, the difficult thing is the black color they all take which makes it harder to select them without going to the drop down in the track header. But I tend to record the automation as much as I can. I like the "human touch". And it's way more fun!


BTW, I wouldn't mind that the envelopes themselves thickened a little when the track is expanded to full screen for example. Not that I find it hard to hit the one I'm aiming for, it just feels like it is.

Pardon my previous post where I vented about other issues with the envelopes...

But I do agree that the common use of black when not selected is very annoying.... Always guessing which is which if they happen to be similar at the moment...

I guess they thought of it as if it's freeze where they use the common color to denote freezing...

That's part of my other problem with them... I don't want them frozen... I want them all active (I know it's only7 visual, but it then takes more "work" to unfreeze them (select)...

As to lanes? that's even worse for me... One of my pet peeves with many other programs...

I hear ya Keni, being able to have all the envelopes active at the same time would be good considering that many Sonar users prefer to work with envelopes in that way. I don't know how hard it would be, but having it as a user option would be nice. I wouldn't mind being able to toggle between the new way and the old way, with a key command maybe. Have anyone posted a feature request on this?