I'm gonna hear one more person try to sell me on how you can easily shift-click to select an envelope... But that's HARDER than before... I used to simply DO it...

...and now I mostly can't even see them to pick randomly and then switch to another and another until I find what I'm looking for. The color choices are horrible... and they get thinner when not active making it even HARDER to see...

I can't change the color of each track/clip everytime I set an envelope... that's crazy! It's gotta work or not... It was fine the way it was... this has become a nightmare and if it doesn't change may well be one of the reasons I leave the Sonar fold... As much as I've loved it these issues have become ridiculous and I'm tired of ranting insterad of working... I've never been thru anything like this with cakewalk before and they don't seem to be acknowledging these issues...

I don't know how anyone likes this new approach.. I hope they will get rid of the stupid edit filter which has made such a mess of envelopes... but as I'm guessing they think this is good, maybe they'll at least fix it FAST and make it somehow workable... But that may not save them from losing customers such as myself...

I'm lost as I don't know a software that comes close to 8.5.3... Especially NOT X1... so I don't know what I'll do... But this is doing noithing but make me angry and unhappy...

I'm currently working on the last piece I started in X1 and it will be the last piece I work on in X1 unless they fix this mess!!!!! ...and I will continue to have my clients stay with 8.5.3 and not upgrade.... and I will NOT upgrade to X2 unless I see/hear that these issues have been resolved... so while I might not control a noticable percentage of their' sales, those I do have sway over have refrained and will refrain... Due to my anger about all this, many are even considering changing to another software now so as not to get lost in the shuffle... I can support them anyway so it's not gonna hurt my pocket

...and NO NO NO to more attempts at making me like this! It is very bad for me and I will not continue to use this software....

I'm exhausted from all the ranting I've had to do with this release.... and exhausted from the huge number of hours of anger and frustration this program is currently giving me...

I do NOT want lanes and that will drive me away even faster!!!

I better stop now as my anger is boiling and I'm about to say many nasty things I know I'll regret....

Keni-The-Angry!

This one of the fixes i was praying for was just "DISABLE EDIT FILTERS" and un-grey the screen ...  

roughly


This one of the fixes i was praying for was just "DISABLE EDIT FILTERS" and un-grey the screen ...  

Wouldn't that be TOO wonderful!

One fix like that would go a long way to restoring my faith in Cakewalk (which is right now very shattered at best).

I just can't express how much this release has disturbed me.

Keni

...and NO NO NO to more attempts at making me like this! It is very bad for me and I will not continue to use this software....

 
And I can appreciate that.   But it's very obvious that X1 doesn't present the same user experience for everyone.  So at the same time there's no sense trying to convince those that like X1 that the pre-X1 behaviours were "better".   I don't think that's going to happen either...
 
In my last post I mentioned I'd like more control over envelope "visibility" and I'll stick with that until the inactive envelopes aren't as dark as they currently are.  Same goes for activating multiple envelopes.   And for projects where there aren't a ton of overlapping envelopes, a "show all" option would be very convenient.   IOW, don't remove the Edit Filter itself - something I don't see happening any time soon - just open up its filtering criteria.
 

I don't know, I think Keni's perfectly justified in relaying his opinion and trying to shed light on these issues so that everyone who's new to Sonar can see what the possibilities are; so the veterans new only to X1 (who may not have had the opportunity to test everything out yet) can see where the differences are, and so Cakewalk can see where their long-time income demographic is hoping to go.  Maybe this following statement is conjecture, but it seems to me that with X1, they (read: "Roland"?) are trying to expand their demographic (get new customers) by making Sonar more like certain other programs that operate this way (PT, for example), but really, isn't this just flooding the market with "6 one way, half a dozen the other" programs?  Keep what makes you stand out from the crowd!!!  If you want to add additional OPTIONS to be competitive, fine.  But don't throw out the old and jump off a bridge just cuz your rival software did it.  Listen to the bulk of your demographic.   ...In order for them to do that, we need to speak up.
 
I completely agree with Keni on all points.  I've been using Cakewalk since Pro Audio 6, and I LOVED the fact that from Sonar 1 up until X1 we didn't have to perform other keystrokes, mouse clicks, or any other workaround to get done what we needed to.  One of the reasons that I HATE certain competitor softwares is because of this "Edit Filter" type B.S.  It really WAS much quicker not to have any filter, and just allow all operations at any time.  I mean, c'mon - wasn't that more of a "Smart Tool" than now?  ...Shift+right click, then make adjustments, or move the mouse all the way to the left side of the screen to adjust the Edit Filter, then back over to the other side to select the envelope (after you can find which one it is), then start moving the envelope...  What the hell kind of workflow is THAT???  Workflow was one of Sonar's main selling points before, and quite frankly, a MAJOR reason I've never wanted any other program.... until now.
 
I'm not trying to convince those that like X1 better that they shouldn't (and I don't think that's really Keni's objective either)...  but I do think it's necessary that everyone's voice be heard.

Holy cats Keni. We know you hate, loathe, detest the edit filter and want to drive it out of town. You've made this painfully clear in fifteen threads. We get the message. If Cakewalk is going to get it, they've already got it too, or decided not to. 

I wasn't trying to tell you personally and specifically to learn to love the edit filter. I don't think there's any hope of that. As mentioned, I and numerous others support the return of the 8.x functionality as an option for users like you who prefer it, though it mystifies me personally how it can be such an earth-shaking issue for you just as much as it seems to mystify you how anyone can like it. So it is, different strokes for different folks.

As clearly explained, I was pointing out the shift-click workflow because I get the impression in many of these threads that people somehow don't know that; I know you know it and still don't like it. Personally I find, as mentioned, that the benefit of exclusive control of a single envelope outweighs the cost of an extra click, but I accept, even if I don't quite understand, that this is not the case for you, and so sincerely I hope you get the functionality you need back.

If it offends you so deeply that people mention these potentially helpful things, please just skip over it, don't read it, and try not to get yourself wound into a knot over it every single time. 

newkulturstudios


I don't know, I think Keni's perfectly justified in relaying his opinion and trying to shed light on these issues so that everyone who's new to Sonar can see what the possibilities are; so the veterans new only to X1 (who may not have had the opportunity to test everything out yet) can see where the differences are, and so Cakewalk can see where their long-time income demographic is hoping to go.  Maybe this following statement is conjecture, but it seems to me that with X1, they (read: "Roland"?) are trying to expand their demographic (get new customers) by making Sonar more like certain other programs that operate this way (PT, for example), but really, isn't this just flooding the market with "6 one way, half a dozen the other" programs?  Keep what makes you stand out from the crowd!!!  If you want to add additional OPTIONS to be competitive, fine.  But don't throw out the old and jump off a bridge just cuz your rival software did it.  Listen to the bulk of your demographic.   ...In order for them to do that, we need to speak up.
 
I completely agree with Keni on all points.  I've been using Cakewalk since Pro Audio 6, and I LOVED the fact that from Sonar 1 up until X1 we didn't have to perform other keystrokes, mouse clicks, or any other workaround to get done what we needed to.  One of the reasons that I HATE certain competitor softwares is because of this "Edit Filter" type B.S.  It really WAS much quicker not to have any filter, and just allow all operations at any time.  I mean, c'mon - wasn't that more of a "Smart Tool" than now?  ...Shift+right click, then make adjustments, or move the mouse all the way to the left side of the screen to adjust the Edit Filter, then back over to the other side to select the envelope (after you can find which one it is), then start moving the envelope...  What the hell kind of workflow is THAT???  Workflow was one of Sonar's main selling points before, and quite frankly, a MAJOR reason I've never wanted any other program.... until now.
 
I'm not trying to convince those that like X1 better that they shouldn't (and I don't think that's really Keni's objective either)...  but I do think it's necessary that everyone's voice be heard.

Thanks for understanding... I too am reading too much "Roland influence" here and I hope I'm wrong...  I have nothing against Roland and I own a number of pieces of their gear... But this software became what it is by being special... I hope we don't lose that.

I'm not trying to convinve anyone which way is better... only not to give up one for the other... have both! That has always been the Cakewalk way!

Keni

subtlearts


Holy cats Keni. We know you hate, loathe, detest the edit filter and want to drive it out of town. You've made this painfully clear in fifteen threads. We get the message. If Cakewalk is going to get it, they've already got it too, or decided not to. 

I wasn't trying to tell you personally and specifically to learn to love the edit filter. I don't think there's any hope of that. As mentioned, I and numerous others support the return of the 8.x functionality as an option for users like you who prefer it, though it mystifies me personally how it can be such an earth-shaking issue for you just as much as it seems to mystify you how anyone can like it. So it is, different strokes for different folks.

As clearly explained, I was pointing out the shift-click workflow because I get the impression in many of these threads that people somehow don't know that; I know you know it and still don't like it. Personally I find, as mentioned, that the benefit of exclusive control of a single envelope outweighs the cost of an extra click, but I accept, even if I don't quite understand, that this is not the case for you, and so sincerely I hope you get the functionality you need back.

If it offends you so deeply that people mention these potentially helpful things, please just skip over it, don't read it, and try not to get yourself wound into a knot over it every single time. 

Hi...

I'm sorry if I sounded rash... It was not aimed at you... and I'm only too glad to have others offer ideas, solutions, work arounds etc.

I'm just tired of fighting...  I'm not trying to convince anyone to like what I do, but obviously there are others who do... that's what got Sonar to where it was (of course the programmers and designers are ultimately that reason)...

I've been using Cakewalk products as long as it is possible. this is the first time I've ever been so upset. I buy the new upgrade hoping for new changes... but not those that make my work harder. I believe that in the process of trying to solve some issues, they have hurt some very basic tools and I'm desperate to make my case with them strong enuf for them to take to heart and deal with quickly...

I only have three main areas of such magnitude... Obviously this is one of them... They are so central to the workings of the program that it's made my life a living H***... why do I keep using it? I WANT to move into the future and there are some new things that I like about the program... (such as more keyboard shortcuts and the Prochannel)...

So while I must continue my work using 8.5.3, I keep trying to work with X1... and now that I've learned it (somewhat) I feel justified in saying that these issues demand immediate attention. they are causing too much grief and it's not reflecting well upon Cakewalk...

I have always walked around the industry touting how great Sonar (CWPA before that) is... this year people are shocked to hear me advise not jumping on X1.... they now how anxiously I awaited it... Something's up... When they went from CWPA to Sonar it was quite a major change and it had it's share of bugs and issues which they've spent years improving upon... But change is not improvement all by itself and these issues need to be addressed...

It's for ALL of us that I want these things... Even those who like X1's current status can only benefit having these things fixed!

I wish wonderful music making to all... I have no anger towards the other users regardless of their opinions of X1... I'm glad if they're happy...

I just want to be happy (again) too!

Keni

Keni, well said and thanks for not taking up my somewhat hot-under-the-collar reply and turning it into a fight, which was not the intention and is certainly not necessary or helpful under the circumstances - though there's a lot of it going on it seems. 

Just to be clear, I am absolutely not in the 'shoot-the-messenger' camp or the 'leave our happy thread alone' camp - although I don't think it's particularly helpful for people to throw those accusations around either. I haven't had a lot of time to break in X1 yet and I'm sure there will be things that bother me, hopefully not as much as they do you, but we'll see. 

I do fully support your right to vent a little and add your voice to what hopefully on some level is still a constructive discussion about how the software can better serve all of our needs and workflow habits. I just find that there's a lot of negativity and antagonism and in some cases a very kneejerk sarcastic response that can come from both 'camps' and it does nothing to further that process, and much to hinder it. Not to accuse you specifically of doing that, but I do hope we can gently steer the boat back towards calmer waters and more constructive discussion. 

I get the emotional intensity of your situation and I know that it stems from a long and fruitful relationship with Sonar and Cakewalk which you now feel is going off the rails. But I do hope you can keep enough perspective on this not to let it affect your health - prolonged stress and anger have very negative effects. Speaking personally I find when I get deeply worked up over something like this it can really mess up my whole system, whereas if I can keep connected to a glass-at-least-half-full outlook everything else seems to flow much better too. Just sayin'...

I am angry!! 

See!!