double post ? edit 

subtlearts


Keni, well said and thanks for not taking up my somewhat hot-under-the-collar reply and turning it into a fight, which was not the intention and is certainly not necessary or helpful under the circumstances - though there's a lot of it going on it seems. 

Just to be clear, I am absolutely not in the 'shoot-the-messenger' camp or the 'leave our happy thread alone' camp - although I don't think it's particularly helpful for people to throw those accusations around either. I haven't had a lot of time to break in X1 yet and I'm sure there will be things that bother me, hopefully not as much as they do you, but we'll see. 

I do fully support your right to vent a little and add your voice to what hopefully on some level is still a constructive discussion about how the software can better serve all of our needs and workflow habits. I just find that there's a lot of negativity and antagonism and in some cases a very kneejerk sarcastic response that can come from both 'camps' and it does nothing to further that process, and much to hinder it. Not to accuse you specifically of doing that, but I do hope we can gently steer the boat back towards calmer waters and more constructive discussion. 

I get the emotional intensity of your situation and I know that it stems from a long and fruitful relationship with Sonar and Cakewalk which you now feel is going off the rails. But I do hope you can keep enough perspective on this not to let it affect your health - prolonged stress and anger have very negative effects. Speaking personally I find when I get deeply worked up over something like this it can really mess up my whole system, whereas if I can keep connected to a glass-at-least-half-full outlook everything else seems to flow much better too. Just sayin'...

Thanks SA...

I want to walk around screaming how great Sonar is! That is what I've always done in the past...

I try to forgive some of the more angry remarks... Let's face it... We're all artists here and are expected to be tempermental (amonst other things ;-))

I'm not here to fight or argue what is better/worse... I only want to work with this wonderful tool (Sonar) and make my music.. It's extremely difficult to remain calm when something so important and close to my heart gives me so much grief... Much like fighting with a spouse. You're absolutely right that it affects one's physical health and I'm sick over it (I'm sick anyway)... I manage to calm down every time I go back to 8.5.3 and then it steams up again when I switch back to X1... I'm absolutely heartbroken that my pride and joy (Sonar) is causing me so much agony... As I would with a girlfriend/spouse when not getting along...

For those who are busy making wonderful music with X1, I'm very happy for you... For those of us on the other side of this issue, I feel badly...

As a caveat... I don't think I'm really asking for that much... I'm not asking to remove new features or "go back to 8.5.3"... I just want some solutions so that Sonar remains my greatest joy instead of my growing nemesis...

Rock on! Swing out! Sing to the Stars!

Keni

subtlearts

  Speaking personally I find when I get deeply worked up over something like this it can really mess up my whole system, whereas if I can keep connected to a glass-at-least-half-full outlook everything else seems to flow much better too. Just sayin'...

I almost forgot...

For me the glass is neither half-empty or half-full... It's simply half a glass... I can live with that... I endeavor to neither cloud my thoughts with the negative nor blind it with the positive... Simply accept it as is...

...and there is my dilemma! I can live with extras that I don't use, but I can't work with things I can't see... Imagine working on a tune without being able to hear it. Are we Beethoven? I wish! (Tho I'm sure he wished he could still hear!) ;-)

Keni

I've just glanced over this thread, but a thought came to me on how this topic could be handled:

Just as we have an FX bin to see all the FX that have been applied to a track, it would be nice to have a "ENVELOPE BIN" of all the envelopes that we have added to a track.

Following on from this idea it would be nice to be able to do the following with the ENVELOPE BIN -- the ability to:
- hide the bin itself, if it gets in the way or people don't like this implementation
- select/deselect which envelopes are to be visible at one time
- make any envelope active/inactive without removing the envelope (just as we can do with FX)
- determine whether the envelopes should appear in the main CLIPS view or only under CLIPS AUTOMATION, or even in a new implementation of LANES.

and so on.  I'm sure there are other ideas that could dovetail into this, but I think this could be one way to work within the new X1 paradigm while being able to regain some of the old capabilities that will satisfy people who prefer that way of working (me be one of them for the most part).

Submitted as a feature request...if you like the idea or want to add more or suggest an alternative, please do so...

Please! No lanes! (That's what it sounds like)... If they really believe this new method so superior, either add an "all Mode to the Filter or a bypass to it's use....

that would be a step forward for me...

More commands for selecting/adjusting? Always welcome (additions, not replacements) as well as show all/hide all

the ability to enable disable an envelope without delting it? Precious! I've wanted that for a long time!

If Lanes were to be added, please make it optional!

Keni

Keni


Please! No lanes! (That's what it sounds like)... If they really believe this new method so superior, either add an "all Mode to the Filter or a bypass to it's use....

that would be a step forward for me...

More commands for selecting/adjusting? Always welcome (additions, not replacements) as well as show all/hide all

the ability to enable disable an envelope without delting it? Precious! I've wanted that for a long time!

If Lanes were to be added, please make it optional!

Keni

I'd be down with these suggestions.

An "All" mode for the filter would most probably be the easiest to implement code-wise, as opposedto a global option that would change the layout.  Whereas now, the filter turnsoff one thing and turn on another, this "All" mode could just enable all the options.  SOUNDS like an easy implementation to the layman, and would appease all users.
 
Optional lanes for envelopes - such as a toggle button as the tracks have for clips?  Sounds good to me!  ...And the bakers should already know HOW to do this, since they do it with clips.
 
The other sugg's - cool too!

I still don't personally understand why the keybindings that have been in place for years needed to be changed for X1, but I'd be much more willing to relearn everything I've spent the past (i dunno...) 10+ yrs learning, if these options were added to X2 (or even better, though I know it wouldn't happen, to the next update to X1).

newkulturstudios

Keni


Please! No lanes! (That's what it sounds like)... If they really believe this new method so superior, either add an "all Mode to the Filter or a bypass to it's use....

that would be a step forward for me...

More commands for selecting/adjusting? Always welcome (additions, not replacements) as well as show all/hide all

the ability to enable disable an envelope without delting it? Precious! I've wanted that for a long time!

If Lanes were to be added, please make it optional!

Keni

I'd be down with these suggestions.

An "All" mode for the filter would most probably be the easiest to implement code-wise, as opposedto a global option that would change the layout.  Whereas now, the filter turnsoff one thing and turn on another, this "All" mode could just enable all the options.  SOUNDS like an easy implementation to the layman, and would appease all users.
 
Optional lanes for envelopes - such as a toggle button as the tracks have for clips?  Sounds good to me!  ...And the bakers should already know HOW to do this, since they do it with clips.
 
The other sugg's - cool too!

I still don't personally understand why the keybindings that have been in place for years needed to be changed for X1, but I'd be much more willing to relearn everything I've spent the past (i dunno...) 10+ yrs learning, if these options were added to X2 (or even better, though I know it wouldn't happen, to the next update to X1).

I say again tho... Please... No Lanes! (Or make it an option)... Lanes are so very difficult to do accurate editing in... Try editing the midi lanes we currently have when suing a guitar synth in mono mode... Dealing with the lane's size to enable precision? Non-existent... Usability? Horrible... Please... It's great the way it is if we could only opt for an ALL mode so that the filter is essentially bypassed and everything is visible and active at the same time...

any additional tools? A dropdown list so that you can select which to bring to the top in case of overlay difficulty? C'mon... There's plenty of solutions without making the workflow slower/harder...

Keni

newkulturstudios




I still don't personally understand why the keybindings that have been in place for years needed to be changed for X1, but I'd be much more willing to relearn everything I've spent the past (i dunno...) 10+ yrs learning, if these options were added to X2 (or even better, though I know it wouldn't happen, to the next update to X1).

Most likely? they opted to give the new GUI first dibs on keys so that B=browser, C=Control Bar etc... and you know what it's like once you start moving one you end up moving a lot more to make things work.... and they also claim it was to group things more logically.... But I wonder how snap got to be F12... Am I missing the logic??? ;-)

I'm really finding it fun going back and forth from 8.5.3 <> X1b...."Was that a U or a alt-z - Which program am I in???"

Keni

I do think most of the new keybindings make more sense than the previous versions: B for Browser or Shift+B for Busses, and "key clusters" like the D variants for the multi-Dock.    But F12?   Nah, not so much.   ;)     But I'm not a big function key fan, at least not for day-to-day work.  They're not so bad for things like opening the Help.
 
 
 
PS...   Keni, I just noticed your Joined date.    :)

stevec


I do think most of the new keybindings make more sense than the previous versions: B for Browser or Shift+B for Busses, and "key clusters" like the D variants for the multi-Dock.    But F12?   Nah, not so much.   ;)     But I'm not a big function key fan, at least not for day-to-day work.  They're not so bad for things like opening the Help.
 
 
 
PS...   Keni, I just noticed your Joined date.    :)

Hi Steve...

Most of them (shortcuts) are ok, other than being different than before... a few are even better... I can live with most of that... I too don't care for the function keys as they're far back on the keyboard and cause me to move my hand instead of finger... But this too I can live with... I did move snap to the n key as I use it far too much to leave it back at the function key...

So we were both "born" into this forum the same day! Howdy Brother!

Keni