Platinum Samples
my main beef is really with sample libraries as a whole
That's a pretty broad statement... Have you listened to any of our sample libraries?
Here's a video of a snare triggered from 0 through 127 by one of our beta testers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4OsCLqt2II
Perhaps you'd make a similar video using your modified SFZ file...?
Cheers,
Rail
-----------------------------
www.platinumsamples.com
Hi Rail. Good to hear from you again regarding the discussion at hand.
Broad statement maybe, and perhaps taken out of it's original context, but if we assume that the library (well, snare) in your video is flawless then we have one for two in terms of those being discussed. I think consumers can expect better than 50/50.
As you may recall, I did post a link to pictures of the snare samples I had remapped previously that showed the resulting values in dB to hits of different velocities. Several other issues come into play here though.
For one, I have completely re-edited my original work. Instead of adjusting the volume of layers I have now adjusted every sample individually with a volume=x.y command in the SFZ as was necessary, a reasonable investment in time as it required measuring the peak of all the samples in the kit. One discovery in doing so is that any reliable test would also require cycling a single hit enough times that every hit, not just one, from a single velocity layer is recorded. What if one "random" hit in a layer is 8dB louder than another in the same layer?
No offence intended but your video offers me little useful information and it's hard not to wonder what interest you would have in some sort of direct comparison to a small kit included as an extra with Sonar and edited by a user. I have already demonstrated the editing I did on the SSlate kit is likely an improvement and that was my goal. In regards to your video, the computer I use on the net is in no way connected to my working systems so I'll I can hear is a youtube video thru Dell laptop speakers. I suppose if I downloaded it and converted it and dragged it onto a memory stick I could make some comment based on a converted youtube file but really, who am I anyways? Pretty much nobody. With all due respect, the video itself simply doesn't give me a real feeling for how good the samples or kit may be in terms of real world use. It sounded good to me as far as listening on a laptop goes but unlke the pictures I posted there is no reasonable way to measure the response of the samples to velocity based on what I see/hear in the video. Sure, I can see the programmed velocities but that doesn't show the response, it only shows what you are asking it do.
I'm not sure how a video from me of the edited SFZ file is of any relevance to this discussion. Is this a competition? j/k... however...I did not record the samples nor was I responsible for their production in any way. I am not selling anything. I voluntarily invested a fair bit of time to make a kit that came included with Sonar a fair bit more functional, something I would have preferred not to do in the first place. For raw material I am at the disposal of a snare with six velocity levels, not sixteen or more. As I will detail in subsequent posts the raw samples were all over the place in terms of recorded sample volumes in a single velocity layer. I have zero ability to modify anything but the SFZ file in terms of sharing with the forum - I cannot modify the actual samples in any way since distribution of (altered) samples would be an issue of copyright infringement. People can use or not use my edited SFZ, I really don't care one way or the other, I have nothing to gain here. But, if this is a competition then we need a level playing field :-)
Now, if you care to send me a DVD with the exact set of samples you have used in the video then I'd be happy to give it a go and write an SFZ as well as posting a video, not that that would be of any use to anyone but I'd probably have some fun with it.
Beyond this, if you would like to discuss the issues beyond advertising your own libraries, something that I assume would go hand in hand with your presence here anyways, I would be honoured. I have a bunch of questions I'd love to ask you. As an example: how you prepare the samples in terms of normalization before dithering in regards to the S/N ratio on the quietest sample layer. Essentially, what is the difference in dB between the dither and the peak of the samples in the softest velocity layer? Not proprietary or in depth stuff like what mics, compressors etc. just basic facts like you might find in the product specs of a good electronics device. Understanding these types of questions gives me a better idea of how companies like yours are choosing to assemble their libraries. Having input from those such as yourself may clear up misconceptions that I have but again this is all on a voluntary basis and I have no expectations that you participate. In reality it's pretty easy for anyone to open the samples up in an editor and see what's going on anyways.
In the end I'd just like to disclose what I did to edit the SFZ, why I had to do it, and ultimately how it affects users in terms of editing samples/libraries to better suit their needs. I also have personal suggestions that I think might make some sample libraries better and more consistant, based on years of use, but hey, I'm not doing the actual recording so maybe my ideas would not be useful at all or are simply not practical from the perspective of recording as I have never untaken such a large task. Some good discussion with someone who has experience would probably sort that out.
Part of this issue also relates to choice of delivery. The SFZ format is good but cumbersome to edit and the opcodes listed are still not accurate. For example, the volume= command is listed as having a max value of 6 db as volume=6. I can confirm that after testing dozens of samples the value is actually 24 as in volume=24. Depending on the needs of a consumer/user this may or may not be a deal breaker in terms of puchases. I, myself, might question buying any library in SD3 format at the moment. I prefer things I can use edit a little easier and consistantly, but that's just me.