Will I buy every PC module?  Who knows

Careful there. I posted something similar this morning and there was a knock on my door. It was the Cakewalk heavies come to give me a gentle reminder that I had to...... and I quote.....

        "buy them or we do ya' kneecaps son"

I'm buying. I'm buying....

FastBikerBoy

 Will I buy every PC module?  Who knows

Careful there. I posted something similar this morning and there was a knock on my door. It was the Cakewalk heavies come to give me a gentle reminder that I had to...... and I quote.....

       "buy them or we do ya' kneecaps son"

I'm buying. I'm buying....

I'm much closer to Boston than you - I guess I have more to worry about.



I like my kneecaps.

Bristol_Jonesey


Do you honestly & realistically believe that VST support will be removed from future Cakewalk products?

Sorry, but this idea is absurd and reeks of paranoia.

If I'm wrong you can call me out when it happens.

I'm with Jonesey here.

I've read through this thread, and the one pointed to over at KVR - a load of poppycock by a few paraniod people, who most
likely represent a very small, itsy bitsy teeny weeny fraction of 1% of the user base.

Doesn't matter what industry / market you look at, there are always a few people who genuinely worry to the extent you could
clearly label with words like paranoia, delusional, ridiculous, etc ... you get the picture.


What's being said here about proprietary formats to lock you in to their product, all moving toward the removal of VST support
really is so ridiculous and over the top.

And this sort of stuff ...

lfm

You obviously think PC and Expanded are not taking resources away from anything else.
I do - it's common sense.

I'm sorry, you have no way of knowing this, and it's certainly not common sense - and neither are any of the other such "Arguments"
against the ProChannel from the neysayers.


I'm not even going to waste my time or energy qouting any others and presenting a counter ... to do so would not be common sense,
after all, doing so will take resources away from the other (productive) things I should be doing.

But you see, there's only one of me.
Hmm, I guess that means I should stop doing things alltogether.
Since it's only common sense that when ever I do something, I must be taking away my resources from something else.
That's really tough, the only way I can prevent taking resources from one thing when I doing something else, is to just
stop doing things.

Surely you must see - it only common sense (oh fooey).

For all anyone knows, a bunch of developers could have been hired by Cakewalk just to work on ProChannel development.
So that wouldn't take resources away from anything else at all ... and I don't believe you'd know whether or not that is the case.

And then there's the example of third party development of Pro-channel modules - does that take away resources from something
that the neysayers think should receive higher priority ?.

NO it Doesn't ... here we go - it "Expands the choices in Expanded"

This "taking away of resources" is all a load of nonsense, just as is the notion of this "proprietary format moving away from
the VST format so they can eventually remove VST all together".

Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish, - you obviously don't understand software development at all, what the VST format is, or what
the ProChannel is ... which IS VST by the way.

The ProChannel VST's (hmm, that's right ... VST) to put it as simply as possible, which anyone should be able to comprehend,
simply has another layer to interface into the "Channel Strips".

It's actually a brilliant idea, and it's early days for the ProChannel too - there's going to be more great features worked
into the "ProChannel beast" as Cakewalk receive feedback and feature requests, and it matures.

FastBikerBoy

If VST support is removed, I'll be at the front of the queue complaining. Let's get a grip on reality here though. Unless the VST format goes the same way as the DX format that isn't going to happen is it.

I am more than happy for support & improvements to continue on VSTs, staff view, matrix and all the other parts of the program I barely ever use. I just wish those who, for reasons I cannot comprehend, have a real downer on the PC would stop trying to stop development on it.

It is IMHO an excellent addition to the program that is really starting to come into its own now.

Now that IS common sense !.

And those with a real downer on the ProChannel are not going to have ANY impact on the development of the ProChannel.

That small minority will either poke their noses in the air, burry their heads in the sand, and choose to be left behind,while
the majority who see things for what they really are, take full advantage of the ProChannel, add on modules, and the
workflow improvements we get from it


     ... OR ...

they'll jump on board when they open their eyes, come to their senses, and realize what they're actually missing out on.

I can tell you right now, the ProChannel provides huge workflow improvement for me, and it obviously does for others too.
I'm able to work so much faster both tracking and mixing, the ProChannel is a TRUE blessing.


I have to say ... taking advantage of what the ProChannel has to offer is just common sense   and it IS.


And if you really don't see things that way, you have the choice to NOT use the ProChannel, and just do things the OLD way with
standard VSTplugs from whoever you want to give your money to.


Ahh, 'Nuf said'.

I've wasted enough time and energy writing this, time to go do something productive and let the party continue without me .

Honestly, I'm actually quite peeved with myself for wasting my time on this, but it's too late now.
I can't get the time back, it's been spent, so I'm posting it now and getting out of here.

Actually, better catch some sleep - off to see the G3 Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and Steve Lukather tonight and it's 3:30 am already !.


Cheers - Cliff

Jind


Whats somewhat humorous to me is that for quite sometime it was a frequent conversation point that Cakewalk should stop forcing customers to pay for synths they already had, for plugins that would not be used because of the quality of third party VST options availlable, for .... well you get the drift.  Well the day comes when Cakewalk listen to this concern and go to an À la carte system for additional plugins where if you don't want it, you can choose not to buy it - leaving the choice to have it or not up to the end user, and guess what the end result is - people complain that either they are not getting it for free, or that it's an evil plot to reduce the functionality of the core product.  

Funny how these things work.

ProChannel seems to be (from the development effort put towards it and the quality of modules released) a successful product for Cakewalk, one that is generating revenue for them.  I can't possibly see how that's a bad thing. I've bought into the concept for similar reasons to others - I like the way it works into my workflow.  Will I buy every PC module?  Who knows - if I find the plugin useful to me, I will buy it.  I could choose to spend my money on third party plugins as well - but it's my choice, one of the benefits of an À la carte system.  For many years Cakewalk has had portions of it's development dedicated to optional components for the various levels of their base product - this is nothing new.  The core product remains.

Hey Jind,

you are right on the button.  There are always the few noisy complainers who are discontent even when they get exactly what they ask for.

And as you point out, even complain when they're given more choice.  I think it's a bit much for some people to handle.

I'm quite sure this is a very big success for Cakewalk ... if it wasn't, we wouldn't be seeing what we're seeing.

And as for the complainers who can't see the choice as a good thing, and take advantage of it ... I really don't care about them at all.
It's their problem, and ONLY their problem.

The rest of the world will continue to move forward - either with them or without them ... and it won't make the sligest difference to
the rest of the world, just a bit of wasted bandwidth and database storage to record their disgruntled moans.


Right ... Off to bed.

Best wishes to y'all now .

Cheers - Cliff

I actually don't know who is more insane....

Those complaining about the PC that they don't have to buy because they don't like it (because it's not VST / interface is too small / it's proprietary / doesn't sound good / too expensive )*

or me for humouring them and stating the obvious........



* delete or add reasons to suit your taste

cliffr

Actually, better catch some sleep - off to see the G3 Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and Steve Lukather tonight and it's 3:30 am already !. 

Cheers - Cliff

Can I come?  I saw the G3 Tour back in 2001 at the Fleet Pavilion up in Boston with Satch, Vai, and Petrucci - would love to see this one with Lukather on board.

FastBikerBoy

Yes, I got you wrong.

It would still make me prepare plan B, when VST support is taken away.
Eventually that would happend.

I'm willing to take a pretty big bet that VST support doesn't disappear in the next 10 years. As someone has pointed out DX is still supported and that died a death nearly 10 years ago IIRC.

There will be new OS'es demanding changes to plugins etc.

That's progress, else I'd still be on an Amiga and others on Win 3.1

Today there are no worries....I'm preparing for the next couple of years doing full time music production.
It's beyond that horizon my worries are....will investments today soon to be a waste....

Why would investing money in today's developments be a waste? If I never ever bought another computer or piece of software or hardware ever again, I still have what I've paid for to use and make music with. I could carry on making music for the next hundred years with the equipment I have now, breakdowns permitting of course, but they can be fixed. I've still got several friends that pay huge amounts of money for hi-fi units made 20 or 30 years ago.

It ain't suddenly gonna get turned off like a tap.

I got S4 2005, and VSTs was still a separate adapter you installed. Internally Sonar was DX technology, and is still. Now they more or less hidden it behind the scenes though.

So don't forget history of Sonar. They reluctantly folded and introduced this adapter for VSTs. It was $50 extra.

DX was already gone in 2002, you say?

I don't agree. My view it was still growing in the number of hosts that supported it 2005. Everybody thought Microsoft would win every battle. Maybe since x64 computers were arriving DX died.

Now Microsoft are really worried, since smartphones and Pads use other OS and number of computers sold are dropping rapidly in favour of these new technologies. Less Windows licenses to charge.

Of this we had no idea 10 years ago - not MS either.

Times are changing much more rapidly now than ever before.

I think Cake would be happy to throw out this VST adapter if they could.

If it is like you say - 10 safe years with VST support in Sonar - the no probs at all.

I just try to be an eye-opener to those that think PC and Expanded is a blessing and a new plugins interface is just fine.

It comes with a warning tag!

If you build your abilities to handle everything in PC and Expanded - it would be a shock for those that depend on this solely.
Every tool you have and know is proprietary to Cakewalk and there is nothing you can do but do what Cake says - or throw it all away and buy it over again in some other format.

- Jump or reinvest and learn it all from start in another format.

Take it or leave it - just my view.

Do all the people who bought UAD cards complain that they locked themselves into a standard for that product? No - they use the tools they choose to use.  This desire to see a conspiracy in Cakewalk offering something unique unto themselves, something that differentiates them in a world of similar products is just that - a feature.  One that is completely optional, one no one is being forced to use.  If Cakewalk goes the route of forcing upon it's users an either/or situation then you have ground to stand on - until then your warning is a chicken little proposition.  What evidence is their that the VST sky is falling?  Products trying to differentiate themselves in a mass of similarity?  I tend to think not.  But I guess I'm just fooling myself because their all out to get us.

We live in a world where people want more options, not less.  Cakewalk has given it's users another one, they've not taken away any.  It'a always the same - no one tool will ever fit everyone, not every change will please all the people. One persons garbage is another's treasure.

But as you said - we've been warned.  

Take it or leave it - just my view.  It's the one thing we all can agree upon - opinions are individual in nature, we all see what we want to see.

I'm not sure I buy this "you'll have to learn it all from scratch" thing. Learn how to use an EQ from scratch? I know how to use an EQ. I am confident I could use any EQ, whether digital or not, with extreme ease, at any time. And I don't think that's a particularly special skill or anything. It's an EQ.

Every tool you have and know is proprietary to Cakewalk and there is nothing you can do but do what Cake says - or throw it all away and buy it over again in some other format.

 
Or...  freeze both raw and processed tracks.    
 
I was wondering though... what exactly is it that you think Cake might "say"?  It's as though you're seeing some radical change in your mind, something we've never seen before from CW.   Something that locks everything non-CW out of SONAR, as opposed to just locking ProChannel in to SONAR.