2017/10/12 00:22:26
papawiz
Havent worked on this kind but heard about it, employee at the guitar center has one and he also still hears the delay in the input echo on sonar, when I went there and told them about my issues in sonar, but i will try for myself tomorrow
2017/10/12 00:35:26
abacab
If I needed very low latency, this video sold me on the UA!  Using the integrated UA plugins, you will not need to rely on your DAW for real-time monitoring.
 
Apollo Interfaces Basic Setup & Recording (Console 2.0)
https://www.youtube.com/w...e=21&v=-tKMgnkPxXY
2017/10/12 00:51:30
papawiz
just watched the video, this seem like this would answer and solve my issue,  ill try it tomorrow, cause the guitar center employee told he has the same apollo interface thats in the video and using sonar he still had the delay on the input, which is why i was so stern that sonar needs to fix this issue in they next update, 
ill try it tomorrow, 
dont know if it will make a difference if i use the apollo twin with a different software cause in the video they are not using sonar
2017/10/12 01:03:35
abacab
papawiz
just watched the video, this seem like this would answer and solve my issue,  ill try it tomorrow, cause the guitar center employee told he has the same apollo interface thats in the video and using sonar he still had the delay on the input, which is why i was so stern that sonar needs to fix this issue in they next update, 
ill try it tomorrow, 
dont know if it will make a difference if i use the apollo twin with a different software cause in the video they are not using sonar




This solution gets you out in front of the DAW and away from any Sonar (or any other DAW) algorithms while you are tracking.  The UA does the FX processing for your monitoring solution, with sub 2ms delay.
2017/10/12 01:29:15
scook
Some interfaces (for example RME and Motu) have effects built into a software mixer supplied with the interface. I am sure there are others that provide DSP in their software mixers.
2017/10/12 21:22:08
abacab
scook
Some interfaces (for example RME and Motu) have effects built into a software mixer supplied with the interface. I am sure there are others that provide DSP in their software mixers.




Correct, I believe that RME and Motu also have models with the DSP hardware onboard the interface as well.  I frequently see all three names come up on these forums when low latency is discussed. No dependency on CPU cycles for real-time FX processing, or the DAW software for monitoring is required.
 
I just happened to think that Apollo has put out some good marketing info that illustrates how using external DSP  makes a difference, and used it as an example of what is possible.  You can push a button in the console software to either print the track dry, or with the added DSP FX, but the DAW should just keep rolling along in the background either way.
2017/10/12 21:47:16
chuckebaby
im sorry if I missed a comment but have you tried disabling your onboard audio card just as a test ?
Possibly you are hearing both at the same time ?
2017/10/12 23:15:22
Cactus Music
 
Chuck, this is not possible. 
Only one audio driver can be running in Sonar and how would on board sound find it's way to an interface anyhow. 
 
 
The OP is just trying to do what we all know will result in hearing the RTL delay of the system. 
Monitoring the back end of a DAW system will always result in some latency and don't believe the manufactures specs. Use your ears and will you hear something.
 
The OP mentions 2-3 seconds,, I think they meant to say ms. 
 
Jim R wrote this out once in a very good way to make it understood, I'll attempt the same but might not be as accurate. 
 
Round trip Latency is going to happen even with the very best interface. for the audio to get from the input back to the output it is processed multiple times, each process depending on it's quality and coding involved will add it's little bit of latency to make the sum total. 
 
First the A/D convertor.
Then the USB or Firewire system coming in
The CPU 
Then the audio driver talking to the DAW ( all DAW's perform the same people, don't blame the DAW) 
Any plug ins that add latency canalso  be  added, but this is one thing you can remove easily. 
Then the USB or Firewire going out
Then the D/A convertor to your monitoring system. 
 
Note: many under $500 interface use what is called a hidden Buffer which adds more latency that was reported. 
 
 
Solutions for those wishing to avoid hearing this are:
Use lower buffer settings.
Using a higher sample rate 
A some point this will need a very good System to support the lower buffers. Many systems using so so audio drivers and lower CPU horsepower will drop out. 
There are hardware solutions like above mentioned buy an interface with built in DSP and effects
Or use a hardware mixer with effexts for monitoring ( what I do ) 
 
A trick I've used to hear reverb from Sonar is to turn the track your recordings fader down or off. 
Insert an effects send to a reverb buss. Set it pre fader. Crank it up and you will hear the wet reverb now in the DAW output but you won't hear very much of the vocal track with it's delay. In a way the little bit of delay in the reveb buss become the effect. 
 
2017/10/12 23:27:32
tlw
abacab
Correct, I believe that RME and Motu also have models with the DSP hardware onboard the interface as well.  I frequently see all three names come up on these forums when low latency is discussed. No dependency on CPU cycles for real-time FX processing, or the DAW software for monitoring is required.


The RMEs have delay and reverb, but I hardly ever use it. I can get round-trip latency in Sonar (or Logic on a Mac) of under 5 milliseconds so long as I don’t load plugins that add latency or strain the cpu too much. Under 10ms is even easier to maintain.

Which makes using the fx in the RME mostly unnecessary. I nearly always record via the DAW with assorted delays etc. running without any noticeable latency at all.

Sonar, and any other good DAW, with no plugins inserted in a project should allow latency as low as the PC hardware and interface and its driver can handle, assuming everything’s set up OK to avoid problems like PCI bus latency issues from e.g. wi-fi or other hardware drivers.
2017/10/13 00:03:40
RSMCGUITAR
papawiz
all i was trying to do was see a way to record vocals in realtime with a little reverb already on the input audio track (vocal) by using the reverb on the input track inside sonar, ( i turned down / muted the master fader and the delay went away but cant hear the reverb,
well i have tried 4 interfaces on 3 different computers, and the issue is still there, wish they write a new algorithm just for this issue, 


If you're hearing ANYTHING with the master fader turned down that could ONLY be because you are directly monitoring from your interface.

Just to be clear, are you turning this knob all the way to DAW??
 
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