• SONAR
  • Sound Difference Between Sonar Versions? (p.6)
2017/10/04 17:15:32
drewfx1
SonicExplorer
Maybe inaudible differences using a NULL test can, in some instances, be audible in rendered tracks?  I'm simply not enough of an expert in this kind of digital minutiae.
 



If something nulls perfectly it means it's exactly the same.
 
If it nulls to the point of being below the threshold of hearing it is inaudible by definition. If it nulls to the point of being sufficiently buried below the noise floor of the track, or the listening environment, or anything else it is inaudible.
 
2017/10/04 20:33:10
SonicExplorer
Well then, if I had to make a wild guess I suspect there is something about the playback between S5 and S6 that is different, rather than the rendering. Such that S6 playback is maybe more true to what is actually rendered.  I'd have to really do some intense listening tests to see if this was likely the case though, and if any settings were causing it or rather it is something intrinsic to S6.   SOMETHING sure seems to be going on, even though it is subtle, whatever it is.
 
Sonic
2017/10/04 20:47:06
Rbh
For whatever it's worth -  I recently jumped from Sonar5 to Sonar Pro and I hear no audible difference that I can attribute to Sonar. I did check to make sure that the pan laws were the same. There are differences between DAWS though, Samplitude sounds great and does sound different, as does Mixbus. I like the sound from all of them but working in Sonar integrating midi to audio is far more advanced in my opinion.
2017/10/04 21:06:39
glennstanton
Maybe the difference is the dithering setting / algorithm
2017/10/04 22:33:22
SonicExplorer
Ok, so pan laws and dithering are potential possibilities.  Please add anything else to the list you guys can think of that are worth checking.   I'll wait a day or so and then take any suggestions and look into things....
 
Sonic
2017/10/05 03:40:40
tlw
Any plugin that emulates the noise produced by analogue hardware is quite likely not to produce the same noise twice in a row. It might, but since the noise component is basically white noise and fake hum it might not.

On the subject of noise, if any plugin is creating noise, e.g. a synth patch, then that may well not be the same twice. Not if it’s properly randomised anyway. Reverbs might not produce identical output on every run through a track either.

What might be worth a try, and I think eliminates everything but the audio engine, is to load a stereo track, commercial or one of your own into a fresh project in each Sonar version. Use no plugins, not even eq and no dithering. Then bounce out from the Master bus at the same bit depth and sample rate as the project.

Do this twice from each version. If S5 copy one nulls S5 copy two, and the S6 renderings null each other, then that shows both versions are rendering the same thing, or as close to it as matters, every time. Then try nulling a rendered track from S5 with one from S6 and see what happens then.
2017/10/13 22:25:57
Kev999
SonicExplorer
...is the only viable explanation that it is all in my mind?

 
It was in my mind too. I originally started with Sonar 6 and I do remember that there were differences between playback and export in that version. Also, playback of 24-bit mixes sounded hugely dynamic against 16-bit versions of the same mixes, which sounded flat and lifeless in comparison. After upgrading to Sonar 7 and beyond, these differences were no longer apparent.
2017/10/14 08:50:20
jpetersen
The channel mixing algorithm got upgraded sometime around S5/6.
2017/10/14 09:57:58
pwalpwal
pan laws also got some attention at some point
2017/10/14 15:23:19
SonicExplorer
jpetersen
The channel mixing algorithm got upgraded sometime around S5/6.


Whoa...hold on.... Channel mixing algorithm? Isn't this the same as, or similar to, the topic of summing, which has been discussed in the past on the forum as being an audible non-factor between different audio software?  Which would then imply, unless there was some sort of bug/error in Sonar to begin with, there really shouldn't be any audible difference to a change in the mixing algorithm.  Or am I missing something here.....
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