tonyzub999
Slate has an Everything annual least for $149 right now. That's pretty reasonable to try them all for a year to see which ones I really want/use. Mostly I would like to supplement the stock SPLAT mixing tools with complementary ones, rather than replace. I'm mostly old school and want some analog harmonics with digital clarity. Kind of like Steely Dan as a reference. Right now I don't care too much about mastering, although that could change.

I like the rich lush Reverbs sounds, like Lexicon. If the 480 emulation from Slate is close to the original that would be big. I don't think that SPLAT has anything similar.

Thought about an 1176, but only if it is better or different than the stock SPLAT version. The SL package from Waves looks good. Is the Waves CLA2A better than the SPLAT version. The AP 2500 also looks good.

Like I said I have lots of questions and I'm looking for suggestions.

Ahh...I'm not personally a fan of subscription models.  If I want to re-mix 2 years from now then I'd have to pay for them to do so, re-new a subscription, or start from scratch as one example.
 
For $150 you can get 6 WAVES plugins (if you are patient and buy when they go on sale).  
 
BREverb and Rematrix are very good Reverb plugins that come with SPLAT.  (made by overloud).  You can get free impulse responses made with a 480 that you can load directly into Rematrix and that might be a good starting point.  
 
http://www.housecallfm.com/download-gns-personal-lexicon-480l
 
I do not think the Sonar 76 is the best compressor, but in the right hands it certainly can work.  
 
SSL package from waves is certainly usable.  You probably missed the boat when the E-Channel was $29, and the other major piece of that package is the Buss Compressor.  This is of course something you can demo easily.  Same deal with the CLA2A, though this is an area where if you have the Sonar CA-2A, I personally don't think the CLA2A is worth getting on top of it (and you don't have the Pro Channel functionality ), but demo it and see what you think.  Test the AP2500 while you are at it.  
 
To me the production of Steely Dan is about the skill of all involved, band and Gary Katz's production and Roger Nichols than it is the tools used.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

True. I merely used Steely Dan as reference material for the type of sound and genre of music I typically produce. BTW, Steely Dan was an early adopter of digital technology, although they used the technique I still subscribe to, get excellent analog quality on capture with great outboard gear. If you do that it doesn't take a lot of gear to "fix it in the mix". I remember reading production articles in Mix and EQ mag back in the day and still like that approach. A great song, great musicians and good capture is 80-90% of the job. Great mixing and mastering won't fix a bad song, bad musicians or sloppy capture on poor gear and converters.

I look at plugins as something to get for a reason only. What I mean is if you find you can't get a sound you want from what you have then its time to look at what a plugin can do. Buying plugins by reputation is to me foolish. You will have a lot of plugins you never use. One should see how a particular plugin can help solve a problem. If there is no problem to solve buying a new plugin is kind of silly. The one area I see an ongoing need is in instruments. Improvements in recording and sampling are an ongoing process. If you are recording real instruments a few good plugins can be helpful. Otherwise see what you can do with what you already have.
 
Unless there is a burning need I would limit the number of plugins I have.  heck, I have found through the years I rely mostly on a few plugins. Sonar Platinum comes with a good starting point except in the instrument area. There one has a lot of room for collecting all sorts of instruments.     

Ok, for what it is worth here is my opinion. Firstly, Sonar or Splat whatever you want to call Cakewalk's DAW does indeed have everything a Newb could want or need to create great music out of the box. For many years, I was very happy with Cake's offering. From PySyn and Zt3a to the ProChannel effects, and more recently...probably one of the best brickwall limiters' on the market - The Adaptive Limiter. 
 
For me, I was happy...then I started to buy Wave's plugs...mainly because their always offering their best fair at 30 bucks...only a couple of weeks ago I got Reel ADT and an API compressor for just over 60 bucks Oz. I then stared to hear subtle differences, for example Cake's console emulation plugs, which isn't too bad until you hear Wave's NLS summing console emulator. The big difference between both console emulation effects though, was in the instruction manual...for the life of me I still can't control Cake's console emulation effect, yep I can make it work by accident it would seem sometimes, but Wave's NLS emulation was a revelation because it explained how and when to use the plug - either as a summing amp or as a preamp - yes obvious, but when it is not explicitly set out...you can struggle.
 
Cake's offering also doesn't have a 20db boost mic preamp button, and this is really cool if for instance like me you use Notion by Presonus (sorry cake). When writing out a score using dynamic markers...the final audio bounce can be very low volume wise. A couple of months ago...by accident, I figured out that by engaging the mic boost button, and by using Wave's NLS emulation plug as a preamp in these types of pieces...I was able to fix all the problems associated with sampled virtual orchestral instruments...well to my ears anyway. Another cool thing about Wave's NLS plug is it teaches you proper gain staging...again something missing from Cake's offering. Wave's NLS, because of the way the VU meter is set, literally points out where the sweet spot is. You can't go too far over or under otherwise the plug won't add the special sauce.
 
The idea of setting the audio level to get the most out of a plug is important, but only if you're going to do what I do which is emulate the signal chain of classic recordings...and this is my point really. If you're a newb, and you're still towing the hybrid line, where your recordings are an amalgam of live and virtual, and you're not interested in mastering the analogue emulation aesthetic...then Sonar's offerings will suffice. Like John suggests in the above post, if you've got Sonar's full offering of plugs and you can't get a decent sound out of those...then you're barking up the wrong tree buying a slew of new plugs. Remember, each virtual effect is like an instrument and indeed when the 'real' world analogue effects came into being over the last 50 years...like a musician mastering an instrument, it can take years to master really complex affects and to hear what that effect is adding to the mix. But here is the thing, if you're like me and you're trying to emulate what are considered the best recordings of the last 50 years...think Sgt Pepper, Abbey Road, Dark Side of The Moon and even Queen's A Night At The Opera...then you're going to need special plugs to do so. And Wave's are a cut above the rest for this, because they have gotton hold of the original pieces of equipment to model their effects. Let me just say, when I got the TG12345 channel strip as used by The Beatles on Abbey Road, or indeed the earlier Redd Channel strip...I was instantly transported back to these classic albums. They also taught me new ideas and techniques about mixing, which I would not have got using any of the propriety effects which come with all DAWs. The Redd channel strip for instance, has only low and high tone cut/boost, which might seem limiting..but if you're mixing a simple track...say an acoustic, vox, bass...maybe some special effects, having an EQ with all the bells and whistle means like me when I was a newb I would mess up the sound by adding or cutting too much. You don't make this mistake when you use a limited EQ like the Redd. 
 
Remember though, if you start down the path of emulating the signal chain of classic albums, there is no half-way safe point, you will need the whole kit and caboodle. So a typical audio track signal chain for me, if I'm using the NLS as a summing amp would be a channel strip...I have five types of emulated channel strips lol...The Redd, the TG12345, the SSLG console, a Neve and finally Olympic Studios Pye offerings. Depending on the type of mix I'm working on, it becomes easy to choose a channel strip...classical or acoustic for example would be the Redd. For pop, and particularly on Vox the TG12345 ect. I would then place the NLS plug over the top and dial in 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion. And until you can hear the 'special' sauce...you're pissing in the wind with this sort of stuff. Finally to really hammer home the idea of emulating the signal chain of classic recordings...I will set up drum and string aux tracks and feed the individual instruments to this aux. Over the top, as it would have been in the glory days of analogue...I place an EQ, then I use Wave's J37 tape sim which is the bomb by the way, and finally another NLS console plug. I don't really use the drive at this point, but it is needed because we're adding in noise and each channel on a 'real' world desk would have added extraneous noise in a similar fashion. Then, lol, I will feed the aux track into a buss where I will add another NLS summing plug...this time a buss version, sometimes maybe I will add drive, and finally a tasty compressor. Just like a signal chain from an analogue studio. The idea of a tasty compressor is important too, because once you understand what a tasty compressor can add...you then realize what is missing from all DAWs and their proprietary effects list. This is missing from a lot of people's understanding in regards to digital audio today, what type of tasty effect to use and when :).
 
Finally, Finally :) because I don't want Cake to think I'm some Wave's stooge, I have two plugs that are a must from Sonar...the aforementioned Adaptive Limiter, which took me about 3 months to really understand and master - it's the swiss army knife of brickwall limiters. And second Sonar's Prochannel Tape Sim oh and Tube emulation. I use the tape sim on sampled drums, you can squash the bejesus out of sampled drums, which emulates the analogue sound that everyone loves in regards to drums...and unlike Wave's tape sims, Sonar's doesn't distort...probably because it isn't as well written but that is another 1000 word essay ;). I love the tube sim too, on vox and anything real. I use it as an levelling amp mainly, because I still record fairly hot into Sonar (another 1000 word essay). But if you listen really carefully you can hear when the sheen of the instrument or the formant come through. The tube sim also helps with the signal path emulation idea, because all the classic recordings we all know and love contain 2nd and 3rd THD or odd and even...by adding at the very beginning of the signal chain - even harmonic distortion - which tubes are...you're emulating the tube mics contained on those recordings, which were then fed into either a tube console i.e. The Redd (more even harmonic distortion), or a solid state console i.e. the SSL. The key to the analogue emulation aesthetic is to record as dead as possible. So if you're told you need a ridiculously priced tube mic, my way eliminates this...because you don't want any special sauce on the way in :). In fact, I use nothing more than an 80 dollar peavy mic for vocals, but I can sing...4 to 5 (when I was a bit younger...more like 4 now) octaves lol.
 
I hope this answers your question.
 
Ben               

Are you aware that with the Slate Deal you will have to pay every month or every year, all the time once you get into it.  Every year/month as fast as I can see.  Ongoing.  It is also iLok. My son got into it and regretted it. The iLok has caused him some issues. 
 
At least with Waves plugs you own them. If there is anything about the subscription model you don't like then maybe reconsider. 
 
 

My (current) personal preferences for plugs are:

Waves SSL console - the strip is great for dialing in EQ by ear only and the bus compressor is fantastic

Fabfilter ProQ2 EQ - this is a joy to use and (IMHO) an upgrade to the Pro Channel Quad EQ


I have just got the CLA Classic Compressors as I wanted a bit of a choice and I also plan to upgrade my reverbs

I am looking at the Valhalla Room and Plate plugs as I am hearing great things about these and they are very reasonably priced

I went through a plug-in addiction stage - still in it I think lol. I have purchased heaps of Wave plug-ins. Each plug-in offers- or so we're told in its spiel - unique factors which will do this and that for your mixing and ultimately your music. However after going through all that, I now have my go to plug-ins and they're usually a compressor, EQ, delay and reverb.
 
Having said that, it's nice though to play with special FX and I guess that's the intrigue associated with some unique plug-ins...searching for that 'aha' moment which unleashes something distinct and awe-inspiring. 
 
I tried the Slate subscription model for a month and yes, there were heaps of great plug-ins to experiment with...more than you could practically use...on one project at least. However, I realised that if I went done this road, then any projects I created with Slate would have me locked into. All good as long as I still had a current subscription. However, say I wanted to revisit the project down the line and didn't have a current subscription, then I'd be out of luck and I'd have to find an alternate set of plug-ins or pay up.
 
I guess that's why I like Waves as once you buy the plug-in, it's yours to use forever...although if you don't renew your subscription update for a plug-in after a year, then you'll no longer get updates for it. Hopefully though by then, all the bugs would have been ironed out.
 
There's been a few bugs with Waves Central in the past, but they do have good support and work pretty quickly to sort issues out. They have always responded to me quite quickly. As and aside, I think they should have a rewards program as well to those of use who keep them in business. 
 
So in a nutshell, some basic plugins are great to have but be careful to not fall into the trap of thinking that a new-beaut plug-in is going to take your mix to a new ultimate level. It really comes down to lots of mixing, trial and error, research, listening, time and creative and technical use of plug-ins.
 
Good luck! :-)

rmfegley
 
Yeah, Steely Dan didn't need no fancy pants plugins. They made do with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of state of the art hardware, the most talented and experienced musicians and engineers in the business and virtually limitless studio time. 

 
First of all, this was hilarious and spot on... I can't verify this independently but I've heard it said, and it seems plausible, that Aja was the first album that cost more than $1million to make. You can buy a *lot* of plugins for that. 
 
Second, yeah, this discussion comes up frequently and many cogent things have been said on the subject, and there are a lot of factors. Certainly it's entirely possible to do nearly anything you can imagine in the way of 'normal' recording/producing/mixing/mastering tasks entirely within the confines of what Sonar, particularly in its Platinum flavour provides. If you know your way around the tools you can make it sound pretty gosh-darn good, too, without adding any outside plugins. 
 
However... if I may... let's use a metaphor here: producing music is a lot like cooking. There are a lot of different ways of cooking in the world, and a lot of different styles of food, and a lot of different flavours and spices and specialized ingredients. There are also a lot of excellent chefs, and they all have different tools, techniques, special or favourite ingredients and spices that they use to do what they do. There is no *right* way of cooking, generally (though there are often numerous *wrong* ways, but even there - it's sometimes possible to get great results by doing things wrong, whether on purpose or in the 'happy accident' sense), and no *right* tool for any given job. 
 
A great chef will likely be able to cook a very good meal with nearly any set of tools or ingredients, but in his or her own kitchen with all the the tools, spices, ingredients etc. that s/he is accustomed to, you're more likely to get a *great* meal. That isn't to say that those specific tools/ingredients/spices (whatever, the metaphor is getting stretched thin at this point) are absolutely required for any chef to make a great meal... you get the idea. 
 
It also doesn't mean that anyone with that set of tools/ingredients will be able to create a great meal. It *definitely* doesn't mean that you need ALL the special tools and ingredients and spices that ALL the great chefs swear by - they certainly don't have all of them, and wouldn't use them all if they did. They have and use the ones they know will get them the results they want in the way they are accustomed to working, fast and reliably. 
 
So here's the drill. The marketing departments of Waves, FabFilter, SoundToys, iZotope, Native Instruments, IK Multimedia, and so on, are paid to make you want the products those companies make. The products may or may not be excellent - I've got stuff from all of them, and most I think are great, and some I even use a lot. I've been stuck in GAS loops from time to time (Gear Acquisition Syndrome, for any unfamiliar with the term) and sometimes I end up with something that is really inspiring and useful, other times I spend a bunch of money for something that seems awesome and indispensible, but I never end up using (but someone else might use on every track). So it goes. 
 
So... isn't it great that Sonar (and every other major DAW including, finally, unbelievably, Reason) gives you the option? It's like an amazing, fully-appointed high-end kitchen with a solid set of tools - some of which, like the above-mentioned Adaptive limiter, are on par with just about anything out there - that any decent chef can use to get great results, *but* it's also possible to bring in whatever else you think is essential to working however you want.
 
For example, I have a penchant for kind of wacko, out-there experimental sounds and processing, for which I would have to stretch the tools in Sonar pretty hard to get close to but which something like NI's Molekular or Melda's MGranularMB make easy and fun to experiment with. I like RapturePro very much but as flexible and powerful as it is, I also have a raft of synths from NI, Arturia and others to play with, and while I could certainly make music without them I wouldn't choose to - sometimes I fire up Iris, or Razor, or Loom, my new plaything MPowerSynth, and hit some randomizer buttons until something sparks and I'm off to the races. That's my way of working, but might not work at all for someone else, but they might feel that mixing without Slate's VCC is *impossible*, whereas I have no need for it whatsoever. 
 
So there you go. If you're relatively new to cooking - err, music production, I'd say Don't Believe The Hype, stick with the great set of tools in Sonar and get used to them, there's a whole lot there and a whole lot to learn. You don't *need* anything else, and it will arguably only distract you. But past a certain point, sometimes a new flavour or spice or very cool tool will inspire you and open a door to a sound or a way of working you wouldn't have found without it, and that's how we grow. 

That said, Ozone7 is kind of amazing, and Neutron is pretty cool too, and aren't you all wondering what this O8N2 business they're currently teasing is all about? 
 
Oh snap, I just checked and they've announced it. I'm doomed... 

About a year ago during an update marathon I decided to pop the gas bubble and create my own "standard toolkit" that I could use across multiple DAWs. It's made up of mostly iZotope products and so far so good. No iLok, no dongle, no monthly fee....
 

subtlearts
 
That said, Ozone7 is kind of amazing, and Neutron is pretty cool too, and aren't you all wondering what this O8N2 business they're currently teasing is all about?
 
Oh snap, I just checked and they've announced it. I'm doomed... 

If they continue to offer loyalty pricing on those bundles I am in!