bitflipper
I, too, must confess to having a lot of plugins. Not a bapu-sized collection, but a lot.
 
Unfortunately, you have to acquire a lot of them before you realize how few of them you actually needed.

Case in point. Size does not matter.....
 
 
....when it comes to plugin (or post) count.

Anderton
Just to put things in perspective, I think the importance of plug-ins pales in comparison to the importance of the audio in the tracks themselves. This isn't to say there aren't subtle differences among plug-ins, or desirable plug-ins other companies make that have no equivalent in SONAR (although the only one I use on a consistent basis is the Waves L3 Multimaximizer - to my ears the best multiband maximizer out there). Also, plug-ins like reverb - which bump up against the limits of computing power - can have significant differences among them.
 
However, when you put reverb on a vocal, what matters to the listener is the vocal, not the reverb. So overall, plug-ins may help make us feel better about a recording, which has value in itself. As to whether they make any difference to listeners, it's probably not that significant.

Whilst Craig is correct, it's about the audio you are sculpting within your DAW...to suggest that properly modelled plugins only offer a modicum of difference is wrong. This shows how far people are behind in the audio business. The problem is again a misunderstanding of medium, and indeed the history of audio production and technology over the course of the 20th century. The analogue medium of tape, and the best way to record to tape was perfected over a 40 year period. By 1975...audio engineers, producers and musos knew the formula to create what we understand as the golden age of western art pop music. The issue is, the audio engineers, producers and indeed musos didn't understand it as a formula, because the modernists and the avant-gardes were more interested in tearing down western art traditions and indeed technical virtuosity in some misguided attempt to make art accessible for everyone...and look where it has got us folks...Justin ****ing Beiber and Ed ****ing Sheeran. I know how to help those two too, to make great art music...but it's a family forum lol. If the audio engineers, producers and indeed musos of the golden age of western art pop music understood what they were doing was a formula or better yet a repeatable technique of mixing different types of THD, gain stage and transient shaping i.e. tape and console compression...we wouldn't be having this erroneous debate.   
 
Let me make this as clear as possible, by misunderstanding the mediums...of celluloid and the digital we've created a hell of a problem for ourselves. Some of you may not know, that the digital or the process of converting electrical signals into zeros and ones was invented in the 1930s. I believe it was designed more as a storage and transmission medium and not as a recording medium. But by the time of the 1970s, when the limits of tape had been exposed, and in particular by Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, as in Beethoven's day when he pushed the limits of music technology by first pushing for the invention of the piano forte, and then doubling the size of the orchestra...again necessity or the formula of music composition, drives music innovation, drives music technology (Beethoven again) forced us down the path of the digital...and like analogue...it has taken 40 years to get to the point where the technology is usable.
 
We all remember the days...about 20 years ago or Sonar 2 lol digital was crap...lets not mince words, but it was crap. We had under powered computers, badly designed converters, and the ability to accurately model classic hardware was still in its infancy. This is the really the line Craig and many others on this forum and out there in audio land are still espousing. And it is wrong, because whilst propitiatory effects included in all DAWs don't really add anything to a mix, well modelled ones do...but you have to understand the digitized medium, and the analogue recording formula. And this is my point...of course digital analogue emulations won't do much if you put a random Redd channel strip on a vox or a string instrument, but if you emulate the entire signal chain of even harmonic distortion (mic), Redd channel strip (even distortion again), summing console emulation (set to TG12345 so odd harmonic distortion), and then feed this into say the J37 tape sim for more even harmonic distortion, and transient shaping...you will hear the difference between really well modelled plugs and average modelled plugs. 
 
Look, this isn't a knock at Sonar and what comes with Sonar...as I said in my previous post Sonar comes with great proprietary effects. Probably the best out of all the DAWs IMO. If you can't make a great tune from these effects...then don't bother. But just like the days of yore ;), music composition, drives music innovation, drives music technology...and eventually you outgrow these effects. Then there is again the misunderstanding of mediums and aesthetics, because when people like me talk about this stuff we get howled down and told we're pretentious gits...modernism, ****ing Walter Benjamin and cultural Marxism...but by understanding the aesthetic of digital...it too can be a desirable aesthetics...this is cold, and lacking the warmth and punch of analogue. This aesthetic is great for hip hop, and dance for instance...even some classical and acoustic, but until we understand the various formulas and aesthetics available to composers today...then these silly erroneous debates will continue.
 
There is a huge difference, between each and every plug we use within our DAWs, one poster mentions UAD versus Waves. I've used both platforms, whilst UADs Pultec has a beautiful subtle bump somewhere around 100hz, Wave's isn't so pronounced, Nomad's which comes with Sonar (I think it is a Pultec clone), has nothing. On the other hand, Wave's Fairchild is much better and closer to the original IMO than UADs. But unless you understand the desired aesthetic you're after...then you're just pissing in the wind. 
 
Ben :) 

What are musos? 
 
All the OP wanted was the over all views this forum on the plugins mentioned. I don't think he was looking for a philosophical treatise on music production of today and the past.   

John
What are musos? 
 
All the OP wanted was the over all views this forum on the plugins mentioned. I don't think he was looking for a philosophical treatise on music production of today and the past.   

Actually John I answered the OP question, and in many ways. To surmise, for John and whomever else is confused, one you don't need to purchase extra plugins if you don't a) want a particular sonik sound, or b) understand the analogue emulation aesthetic. Sonar has an excellent selection of plugins for novices and experts. As Craig put it, it's not the tools but what goes through the tools. On saying that, if you want to advance your music production skills, start small and build. I'm not sure about the slate stuff, but if it's only approximated on the analogue equipment it's supposed to emulate...i.e. Slate hasn't been able to get a hold of the original piece of equipment to create the plug...then the plug isn't worth it. And these plugs aren't worth it, if you have to keep renting or paying a monthly subscription. Yes, Cake does the same...but it's rent to buy, and so therefore isn't odious...you own it at the end.

Waves and UAD, probably the only two companies with the people and the skills to create accurate emulation, would be my recommendation if you want to learn advanced production and mixing techniques, which is what I'm talking about. There is no need for fancy plugs if you don't want to go to another level. SONAR'S plugin selection IS STILL BY FAR THE BEST AND MOST COMPREHENSIVE if this is a hobby. :). Two caveats with UAD and Waves...the first being, UAD require expensive hardware to run plugs. For me, this is obsolete unless you want to use plugs live, and even then I'm not sure you'd need DAP accelerator hardware if you have a Thunderbolt interface. Theoretically you shouldn't. And UAD DSP accelerator hardware has a habit of becoming obsolete and no longer supported. DSP accelerator hardware don't forget was primarily introduced in the very late 90s for underpowered computers, most DSP hardware companies went out of business by 2010. The second caveat and Wave's is, yes you own the software at the end of the day...but if Wave's updates their software to 10 from 9 say, and it is no longer compatible with your system...then you have to pay 300 bucks to upgrade. But that's the maximum you pay, no matter how many you own...so you go down this path with this sort of hanging over your head.

Muso's John equals musicians...must only be colloquial to Oz. Finally john I wasn't giving a lecture on the historical and present recording paradigms lol...I was trying to help people learn about the mediums and technology they use to create music. It's through understanding that we advance our knowledge and abilities. And it's this causing the largest blockage within modern music IMO

Ben

It was probably a little off topic, but it was a very good read.

John
What are musos? 
 
All the OP wanted was the over all views this forum on the plugins mentioned. I don't think he was looking for a philosophical treatise on music production of today and the past.   

Hi John, I actually did answer the OPs question...perhaps not in a simple way though. To surmise, for all those struggling. 
 
Sonar has everything a newb or a hobbyist composer, producer, engineer and indeed muso (musician John...sorry Oz colloquialism), could even want and need. In my professional opinion, of which I believe I can offer now :), Sonar is still by far the most comprehensive DAW on the market when it comes to their propitiatory list of effects and synths. I have been a Sonar user since version 2, and first purchased Sonar in 2002...so just over 15 years. I've also used and owned over the years Logic, Cubase and Profools ;). Oh and I do have an early copy of Presonus Studio One...the basic version. 
 
You will need fancy plugin effects beyond Sonar's offering only when you want to explore more fully concepts pertaining to advanced music production techniques. This includes the analogue emulation aesthetic...perhaps the most difficult and misunderstood concept within digital audio - both contemporary and historical. There is no point in buying expensive separate plugs - even 30 dollar Wave's specials end up being expensive lol, I have almost 30 so almost 900 bucks when adding up the tally if you're not going to invest time in learning about the plugin technology, how to use and where to place that technology within the signal chain, and to top it off investigate how that technology was used physically in the past, and in the real world. And as I pointed out, even if you learn how to use the plugin and can hear what it is doing...unless you integrate the plug into a wider analogue emulation signal chain...you won't really get the benefit of the plugin...something that Craig Anderton's post really emphasises IMO.
 
On the other hand, you decide you want to learn about advanced production techniques...then you will need to pick a software plugin provider, and for me...there are really only two - UAD and Waves. I've never used Slate's stuff, but unless the plugin has been modelled on physical gear of which the company needs to be able to get their hands on...then anything spiel that says it has been modelled on such and such...is really not telling the truth. For example Wave's Abbey Road Signature series has all been modelled from the original desks, tape machines etc used by The Beatles and others who used the equipment at Abbey Road...meaning it's very accurate. I read that Slate require you to pay a monthly access fee or rent the software...this would be a big no for me. Even though Sonar is a rent service, it is rent to own...it is by far the best option, and allows those who can't afford to buy the software or upgrades upfront to do so. It's actually a reasonable deal. 
 
There are two caveats in regards to Wave's and UAD. The First, UAD is their DSP accelerator hardware, which is costly and has a habit of either being discontinued or worse no longer supported. I've used UAD before, and I prefer Wave's. And remember DSP hardware accelerator cards have been around since the late 90s, and were mainly fashionable because of early computing technology which wasn't powerful enough to process audio. Most of the companies that created this tech and software have now gone out of business. In my mind, DSP hardware is obsolete, unless you're using it in a live setting...and even then it should still be obsolete if the promises of Thunderbolt audio interfaces come to pass. UAD aren't worth the investment. The second caveat, and Wave's is yes you own the software...but beware the hidden fee. If Wave's update their propitiatory software from 9 to 10 say...and you have compatibility issues, then you will need to pay up to $300 dollars to upgrade from 9 to 10. The most you will pay is $300 though, no matter how many plugs you have. I prefer this to the $6000 I wasted on Creamware DSP accelerator technology at the start of the naughties, or indeed the $1500 I spent on UAD DSP accelerator technology in 2010. :) 
 
Hopefully, I've made the answer more clear for both the OP and John...I wasn't giving a lecture on music philosophy - both past and present as John suggest...what I was doing was trying to help the OP and others understand beyond the limited notion of 'should I buy this plug'. The question is actually a lot more complex than that, as I hopefully have demonstrated...and I haven't even discussed the of 64bitFP and the analogue emulation aesthetic lol.
 
Ben        

Very interesting thoughts Ben, thank you. 

I purchased the Slate bundle several months ago.  And I think I used a few plugins just once.
Between Ozone 7 Advanced and Neutron, plus all the plugins that come with Sonar Platinum, I can't find a reason to use the Slate plugins, unless I just want to use them for the sake of using them.

Unfortunately I purchased the Slate Bundle by using the monthly subscription plan, and I'm stuck with it.  I have to keep paying $14.99 a month until March 2018.   So I guess maybe I'll start trying to use it more, just to get my money's worth.  It's just that I'm so used to the Sonar efx plugins and everything else I already have, I don't feel like reinventing the wheel.

It's another sad case of G.A.S., or as I call it, being a "Software Junkie".

Some of the plugins included with Sonar are actually great. I have a collection of Waves plugs and the Slate everything bundle (and lots of other stuff). Some Waves plugins are great and some not so great. Same with Slate and most other plugin developers. However, as a bundle, the Slate everything is good and provides you a lot of good and useful tools, but they are pretty much all modeled on analog gear which is great if that's what you want. The Slate Virtual Mix Rack is one of my go-to tools - I love that plugin loads!

Clearly then technology hasn’t advanced if the best we can do is a virtual emulation of hardware that existed more than 50 years ago. The only thing that’s really changed is the cost of entry has made it possible for anyone to play like Steely Dan.