mettelus

bitflipper
I, too, must confess to having a lot of plugins. Not a bapu-sized collection, but a lot.
Unfortunately, you have to acquire a lot of them before you realize how few of them you actually needed.

This post might have been too short to be noted, but is sage advice....

 
Agreed. Especially if you have a chaotic/organic learning approach, as I do. I think in many ways a systematic approach - start with e.g. the Sonitus plugs, and really buckle down and study and learn what everything does, since they have lots of control and flexibility - would be a more efficient path, and cheaper, but it's not what I've done. Being the way I am, and learning things the way I do - by diving in and mucking about until things start to make sense - I've done it the opposite way, by getting my hands on a bunch of things and eventually the skills come together by a kind of organic/osmotic process... if that makes any sense... and yeah, then I realize I could do much the same thing with about 1/10 the plugins I have. But, you know, some of them are really nice... 
 

bladetragic
Also, there are very inexpensive offerings available from smaller companies that are sometimes just as good or better than what the more "mainstream" companies like Slate and Waves are offering.  You may want to have a look at those as well...

Agreed also. In fact, there are tons and tons of free things out there and some are actually really good, though it can take some time to separate the wheat from the chaff... Here's a really great resource with a comprehensive but curated list, helpfully divided into categories and with some editorial annotations: https://bedroomproducersblog.com/free-vst-plugins/

bladetragic
Also, there are very inexpensive offerings available from smaller companies that are sometimes just as good or better than what the more "mainstream" companies like Slate and Waves are offering.  You may want to have a look at those as well.

And smaller companies also go bankrupt - and there you are and no way to authorize what you once bought.
Kjaerhus Audio is one I come to think of.
 
But buying from smaller vendors always look for what kind of authorization there is. If general serial you are probably ok - so not having challenge/response type where tied to computer is good advice.
 

 
Plus you don't have to lock yourself into a subscription or deal w/ the WUP plan that many people seem to despise.  

You are not in any way locked by Waves Update Plan(WUP). You have gotten all updates with fixes etc without active WUP. All v9.x updates are free. My first Waves bundle Gold was extended with Vitamin plugin while in WUP - so that was for free - and that needed WUP to get that license as well. But not requirement to use the rest of Gold bundle.

 
You are not denied support because you are not in WUP - they helped in every way since I left WUP late 2014. And if having large investment in Waves - max amount is $300 to activate it again(and same amount you get as vouchers to buy discounts on plugins). So having $1500 investment like me, $300 to get version updates if needed is coffee money. And it's not until v10.x of Waves that you actually must activate WUP getting updates. And every plugin you buy is automatically on one year WUP.
 
It's somewhat outdated view on Waves you told about. Cakewalk subscriptions are in fact more locking you in than WUP do - no bug fixes or updates once stop paying for Sonar rolling updates.
 
 

Indeed, the WUP has always seemed to me - though I confess I've never looked into it especially deeply - rather generous. If anything, it's like those grace-period things that many companies do when they release a major upgrade, so that if you bought the previous version within, say a month or two of the release of the new one, you get the new one for free. With Waves you get a full year of WUP with every new plugin you purchase - even if on ridiculous sale - and so you have that guarantee built in. Even if they update to W10 364 days after you bought plugin or bundle X, you will get that plugin or bundle upgraded to W10 for free, and all point upgrades thereafter. Unless I'm wrong about this?
 
Anyway, complaining about not getting *all* our Waves plugins upgraded for free always and everywhere, seems a bit rich. given that very few companies offer lifetime updates - well, some of us are Sonar lifers, and Melda does it (can you tell I'm a bit of a Melda fan?), and maybe a couple of others, and Reaper gives the next full version plus all point updates which seems reasonable, but most companies need to offset the R&D costs of a major update with an update fee, and nobody freaks out. So why does Waves get flack for their policy which is actually more generous, as I see it (and again, I may be wrong here), than most? 

I appreciate the conversation. It's good to have a free-flowing forum with different thoughts and ideas and people not getting upset. Seems like in Society anymore the attitude is "if you don't agree with me then you're an idiot".

Music and music production is a creative process. By definition that means that there's going to be different approaches by different engineers. Probably all approach things differently. At least thats the way it seems when I listen to podcast from established engineers.

Using the analogy of great chefs, they dont all act in a monolithic way, but they're all excellent in their own genre.

So what are your favorite plugs and why? That may help other people narrow down their choices and save time without wasting a lot of time on extensive research.

Steve_Karl
Unclear to me ... nothing showing for the yr. 2015 in My Account > Products.
A link would be awesome. TY!

I believe it's installed with updates. Check under C:\Cakewalk Content and see if there's a folder called Anderton Synthetic Impulse Responses. Use ReMatrix Solo's Import function to bring the ones you want to use into ReMatrix.
 
Read the Dorchester eZine for details on how to do this, it's not intuitive. 

tonyzub999
So what are your favorite plugs and why? That may help other people narrow down their choices and save time without wasting a lot of time on extensive research.

I sort of deliberately don't have favourite plug-ins. Partly because I do a lot of live mixing, and at the low-to-mid level I work at, you get to the venue, and you've got what you've got, gear wise. So I don't want to be good at using a particular EQ or compressor; I want to be good at using EQ and compression in a general sense.

I prefer to think more about techniques and methods. For example, parallel compression is a technique, and you can do it with whatever compressor you have to hand. Sticking with that example, you will find, over time, that certain compressors are great for certain applications. I really like the PC76 that comes with Sonar for kick snare and toms parallel. But I will sometimes have an overheads parallel bus, and I've come to like the Waves Jack Joseph Puig Fairchild clone for that. But if I didn't have that, I'd just try the compressors I had and find something that did the job well enough, I'm sure. If I had to, I'd use another instance of the PC76, and I'd be fine. So the Fairchild clone is nice (very nice), but not essential. And neither of those plug ins do anything at all useful without the sensible application of solid methods.
 
I don't really think there are *any* magic plug ins. No good tool is ever "like taking a blanket off the speakers" or a "night and day difference, as soon as I switched it on". I wouldn't trust any processor that was.

EQ is EQ, generally speaking, compression is a slightly more moveable feast, but there are still only a limited number of ways a compressor can work, and so on. "Character" plugins that replicate old hardware are cool and everything, but you can totally set a Fairchild compressor or an original Pultec to sound like a donkey's backside if you don't know what you're doing with it. It won't do the work for you, and nor will any emulation of those. Understanding how to set *any* compressor is what will make your compression work. And it's hard these days to find yourself stuck with an actually *bad* compressor plugin. So hey. If you're still looking for great compression, and haven't found it yet, don't buy stuff, just fire up what you got bundled in your DAW and practice.
 
All that said, there are some unique things that I would miss if I couldn't have them any more. I really love the Kush Audio Clariphonic EQ, which is unlike any other EQ; not better, not worse, but completely unique, requiring a completely different approach to any other EQ I've come across.

I also would miss Zynaptiq Unveil, which is an incredibly clever plugin that can tighten up the ambience of recordings made in less than ideal rooms. It's sort of pitched as a reverb removal tool, but that's not really what it does well. It's better for taming the colouration of dodgy rooms. Absolutely solid gold on overheads and room mics.
 
 I'm also really starting to get into SurferEQ by Sound Radix, which is a frequency tracking EQ, meaning you can have your EQ curve move up and down with the note. Fantastically useful on monophonic sources like bass and vocals. And I absolutely couldn't live without the freebie ReaGate plugin from Reaper's effects bundle, which is for my money, the best general purpose gate out there, with really nice look-ahead control, so it need never cut off the attack of any sound.

None of those four things are emulations of classic gear; in the case of the last three, quite the opposite. They're things that couldn't even exist in a tape & analogue desk context.
 
I do like and use good Pultec and Fairchild emulations (Waves) and good SSL emulations (the Sonar stuff), but honestly, I will happily do a mix without any of that stuff.

Thanks. One interesting thing that kind of supports what you are saying is that the large church venue that I ran FOH on for many years had a great analog Midas pro board, Aviom in ears, excellent mics, drums, Kurzweil keys, etc, but our outboard gear was very mid level quality. We had a couple of mid priced Yamaha EFX boxes, a couple DBX 1066 compressors, a low end Lexicon, cheap de-esser and that's it. Of course the room was huge so there was a lot of natural room sounds.

subtlearts
Hey Ben... I didn't mean to put words in your mouth and sorry if I misinterpreted you... in fact, looking at what I wrote now I think parts of it do come across like I'm jumping on things you said in an argumentative way, and in fact that wasn't my intention - it was more a case of, things you said made me think and I wanted to express what I was thinking, but again, apologies if it came across more aggressively than intended. 
 
However, I think there are some points where we might have to agree to disagree. Or rather, I think we have fundamentally different approaches. I think in many ways you're absolutely correct that having a specific aesthetic and understanding what goes into making that aesthetic are probably going to be helpful in many aspects of production, including but not limited to selecting and using add-on analog emulation processors - if you're going for a specific aesthetic. However, what if - as in my case - the aesthetic you're going for is "whatever sounds good to me and makes me feel good"? 
 
I know there are many people working in music and production who are going to be much more formulaic in their approach than I am, and many of them are likely far more successful with that approach than I will ever likely be. But I'm simply not interested in following any existing formulas to make the strange music I like to make, except for whatever habits organically emerge through the process of doing so. I am not trying to emulate anyone or anything, though I think it's perfectly valid to do so; I'm simply not interested in that. So my 'formula', which informs everything I do and everything I produce, is simply to be playful - I start putting things together and when they start to make me feel good and/or spark my creative interest, I figure I'm on the right track.
 
I'm pretty committed to this intuitive, playful approach, since it's always served me well, and in fact it often informs my mixing choices as well - I'll throw something on a track simply because I haven't used it for a while and I wonder what it will sound like on what I'm doing; sometimes it sounds terrible, so I remove it and try something different, but sometimes it wakes up a track with a completely different sound than I might have been going for, taking the whole process in a new and unexpected direction. And *that* is what makes me happy and keeps me curious and creative. I think you're entirely correct that a formula and a more deliberate process will always serve you best if you are going for an expected result, but I am literally doing the opposite, I am looking for unexpected results, since a) they make me happy, and b) they are the lifeblood of my playful creative process. 
 
Of course, I also have my standby plugins and my habits which, again, have largely emerged organically, and those are the ones I will tend to put on towards the end of a mix (and I'm also one of those people that doesn't particularly separate composition, production, mixing and mastering - it's all a bit of a jumble for me, which I'm sure breaks all sorts of rules, but then I like breaking rules, it's always worked well for me and I have no intention of stopping anytime soon!) to bring in the overall warmth and spice and tonal balance that I do want the final product to have. For me, currently, that is very often Neutron and Ozone, with sometimes a few hints of Waves and even IK stuff. 
 
Anyway, I am in no way interested in an argument about this stuff, but I do think that one of the things that makes this forum valuable is the healthy exchange of ideas from very different perspectives, so while I hope we haven't inexcusably hijacked the thread, it's been interesting, at least to me! 

Hi Tobias, no I didn't think you were angeling for a debate :). I was just disagreeing with you about certain, and it is certain, plugs not adding anything to the mix, and indeed the emulation game as nothing more than a cynical marketing exercise. 
 
Let me explain, a couple of months ago, I was stripping mixes of old compositions...this is how I work, I know my past compositions were fine, but my production and mix technqiue was letting me down. Last year, when I discovered or created binaural diffusion :), I started a re-mix project...a bit like Page and Zepellin lol, where I went back over twenty years of work, about 50 tracks and remixed them with all the new knowledge and of course my new binaural techique. Now, I thought great...I'd finally fixed the tracks and I could put them to bed. Then, I was working on a virtual classical piece, and for the life of me I couldn't fix the mix. There was too much low-mid, harsh brittle tops ect. Then out of desperation and after some reading...I switched Sonar's 64bitFP mix engine, and made sure the oversampling switch was on, I also had just brought Wave's NLS console emulation, it was at this point I had a sonik revelation. I could hear what I was adding, and indeed I could hear the differences between each plugin and what they added to the mix. This is why, I stepped in when you said the plugs didn't add anything to the mix, because I could finally hear what they were doing to the mix. And because I knew what the mixes had sounded like without console emulation and tasty effects, then what they had sounded like with Cake's console emulation, and finally Wave's...it was at this point I went ah ha :). 
 
Your other comment about mixing and intuition is something I whole heartedly agree with too...what you're actually describing is the automatic, an idea forever linked with Jackson Pollack...I also use the chance technique too...John Cage who is the godfather along with Luigi Russolo of the sampeling and found sounds movemnt :)...it's my sonic arts background. For me mixing is like painting, and even sculpting...I like to think we work in the ethereal realm with the ethereal material of sound lol...look I'm not half as pretensious as 'real' fine artists - ugh I just want to scream sometimes :). But for me, now that I can hear what I'm adding with my emulation plugs, I choose an appropriate flavour and then use my different EQs and compressors to fit that flavour. So, the Wave's NLS console emulation comes in three flavours and can be described like this...the SSL flavour is clear and transparent, the TG12345 flavour is warm and think...the Neve is in between, and from here I choose the next layers...so if I was to use the TG12345...I would stick with the Redd console emulation, the TG12345 emulation and sometimes drift into the Pye stuff...I know the flavours compliment each other. To make sure I don't get into a rut, and to demonstrate the idea of the chance technique...if I feel like I've used a certain type of flavour too often, I purposely choose another aesthetic - its the change up of the technique and allowing the possibilities of the technique to present themselves which creates the chance technique. By knowing the formula, you can forget the formula almost.
 
Finally, I don't believe we've strayed off topic...the question was about 'should I buy these plugs', what we've done through polite discorse is explore the question more fully and on a deeper level...now I'm talking like a Wankademic...yes I can take the piss out of myself...I don't do serious lol.
 
Ben  
 

Ben, out of curiosity, do you favor the Waves over the Cake console emulations, or are they different enough that you use both at different times or together?

tonyzub999
Ben, out of curiosity, do you favor the Waves over the Cake console emulations, or are they different enough that you use both at different times or together?

Hi Tony, I now favor Waves over Cakes. Only because, it is easier to set the gain of the mixes through the VU meter, and because I know the flavors they offer...meaning I can then use the rest of my plugin collection to match the chosen flavor of the console emulation. You don't use both...here is a huge mistake that I made, and is a problem with Cake's instruction manual. You have to either use the console emulation plugs - Waves, Cake - either as a preamp or before any and all plugs or after any or plugs, creating a summing amp situation. This is one of the reasons I've been pratteling on about the analouge emulation aesthetic, you literally have to re-create the analogue signal flow...because I was mixing and matching...sometimes having the emulation plug at the start of the signal chain, and somtimes at the end within a mix, I think it created some unpleasent distortion...but I'm not one hundred percent sure, because a) I wasn't using the plugs correctly, and b) again, once I turned on the 64bitFP engine, I could hear the posibilities of the effects. I've got to go back and do some experiments, but by not using the 64bitFP engine...this could be the reason why Cake's emulator didn't sound as good to my ears. I'm not sure, so don't quote me on that. From what I now understand, if you think about what these plugs do...it makes sense that they would work only if you use 64bitFP, because as you fold down the audio into 24bit...you lose the harmonics. Don't get this confused though, in regards to bouncing files down to a composite master...I'm talking about DAW processing. However, though...I do recomend boucing out both 64bitFP master files for uploading to Soundcloud and the like, and yes Soundcloud does accept 64bitFP 96khz files. The reason being, the more you compress something or fold it down, the more you lose what you've put in because it disapers into the noise floor. And, I don't do 16 bit files anymore either...for me when I listen to my music on my phone, I make 24bit master files.  
 
Finally, I just want to make sure this clear, this is not about Sonar or Cake versus Waves, becuase it is a silly debate. Wave's are a plugin company, and need a fully functioning DAW. Even if Wave's were to bring out a DAW, it would be silly to abandon Sonar, because Sonar have over 20 years of experience building a Windows only DAW. Methinks, Gibson should be contacting Microsoft if the rumors are correct and Windows is looking at getting into the DAW game. Microsoft, if the rumours are true want to create a Windows music creation option along the lines of Logic and Garage Band. To me, if Microsoft want to create a Windows only DAW...they should ask or form an alliance with the one comapny that are experts on this.
 
I hope this has helped.
 
Ben