Cactus Music
But then when those folks wonder why their recording still don't sound like a hit record after they have created a monster with 1,000 loops, 86 audio tracks, 96 midi tracks and effects on everything up the wazoo the answer is going to always be - garbage in garbage out.  
 

This is so accurate but very funny.

Cactus Music
But then when those folks wonder why their recording still don't sound like a hit record after they have created a monster with 1,000 loops, 86 audio tracks, 96 midi tracks and effects on everything up the wazoo the answer is going to always be - garbage in garbage out.   

 
Damn, that sounds just like the project I'm working on now 
 
In all fairness though, you'll find a lot of modern electronic based music to be like this, whether it's dance music or ambient or whatever. LOTS of tracks of different layers (3 kicks layered together, 2 or 3 snares layered, synth sounds made of 3 or 4 layers of different frequencies or textures, 2 or 3 layered synth basses, lots of bussing and complex routing, lots of tracks with short lived sound effects or textures or ambiences etc). So it depends on the kind of music. If you have 86 audio tracks for a 4 piece rock band, then yes that's probably a sign of something gone wrong. 
 

Anderton

Cactus Music
It's why I don't even use Guitar sims. I get the guitar part to sound the way I want to fit the song,,, then I hit the button.. and I play my part all the way through if at all possible. 

You can do the same thing with amp sims, I get the sound I want with the amp sim and it doesn't change. The main reason I use amp sims is because I can get exactly the sound I want.

 
Right on,,, this is exactly the point.. And me I get that with the same rig I've used for 30 years.. My Fender Princeton and a SM 57.  
I do sometime print Tremelo or Chorus to tape but not without pre knowledge of what I wanted for the song. Delay I like to sync to the tempo so that has to be ITB. But good tone for me can only come from my amp ( and fingers) 
 
Yes Good stuff in this thread.. 
 
And yes as said somewhere back it really depends on the type of music,, I think we are mostly talking traditional Rock and roll ( or Country,  folk or Jazz)  here and not that new fangled electronic racket made by you youngsters. 
 

Cactus Music I think we are mostly talking traditional Rock and roll ( or Country,  folk or Jazz)  here and not that new fangled electronic racket made by you youngsters.

yes - there's no way you can get some of those sounds "on the way in"

Cactus said it first...."performers were committed to creating good takes / recording right up front. For us older folk, it meant doing it the best right up front. Most had expensive outboard equipment then. Standard.

Cactus Music
I think we are mostly talking traditional Rock and roll ( or Country,  folk or Jazz)  here and not that new fangled electronic racket made by you youngsters. 

That's because we old guys used up all the good notes and chords already.

cparmerlee

Cactus Music
I think we are mostly talking traditional Rock and roll ( or Country,  folk or Jazz)  here and not that new fangled electronic racket made by you youngsters. 

That's because we old guys used up all the good notes and chords already.

To be fair, that ship had already sailed by the 1930's...

It is always amazing to watch the old films of George Martin in the studio with the Beatles working to get the best performance out of them.  He knew what they were capable of, and had musical ears to recognize their best.  When we work in seclusion with a DAW, we have to be both George Martin and the Beatles.  That's a tall order.

RobWS
When we work in seclusion with a DAW, we have to be both George Martin and the Beatles.  That's a tall order.

And be the tape op, and do the studio maintenance! I suspect all the people who complain about "oh, these computers are just so darn temperamental, why do I have to dedicate a computer to music" never had to maintain a 24-track analog studio. 

RobWS
It is always amazing to watch the old films of George Martin in the studio with the Beatles working to get the best performance out of them.  He knew what they were capable of, and had musical ears to recognize their best.  When we work in seclusion with a DAW, we have to be both George Martin and the Beatles.  That's a tall order.

Not only the performances but early stuff he produced on 4 track still stands up to todays standards.