• SONAR
  • Using the Microsoft SURFACE DIAL with SONAR Walkthrough (p.3)
2017/10/09 05:11:33
sharke
I think I'm in agreement with some here that I don't see it as an improvement over just pointing and clicking with the mouse, unless of course you have physical problems which make the use of a mouse problematic. In fact I think I can do things quicker with a mouse & keyboard modifiers than I could with this thing. I've been through other forms of computer control before and always come back to the mouse. For instance I had a trackball at one point because I thought it would be good for Photoshop work - gave it a couple of months, then went back to the mouse. Then I had a Wacom tablet - same deal, went back to the mouse. As others have said, you can't really beat the mouse. It really is an extension of the brain and a very natural method of interacting with a UI that's one step away from actually touching the screen. 
 
When I think of a typical heavy arranging and mixing session with Sonar, I'm doing all kinds of stuff at the speed of thought. I'm clicking on buttons, turning knobs, moving sliders, scrolling, dragging, highlighting, bringing up menus, moving windows around and generally interacting with the UI in every possible way. Turning a knob might feel "smoother" than dragging a fader with the mouse, but I accessed that fader quicker with the mouse than I would with a dial, and really I don't experience any problem with homing in on the right fader position with a mouse. I just can't get over having to bring controls in focus with the mouse and then switch over to another device to move that control. 
 
What they really need to do is bring out a mouse with a dial built in. Oh wait they already have it...it's called a mouse wheel, lol......
2017/10/09 12:08:43
Zargg
Hi. Great video, Simeon. Well presented 
I have to say that i'm not overly impressed with it as a "new" type of product. I'm with Alexey and the others on this.
I feel it is a slimmed down (even if BT, and not wired) of the nOb, which is something I'm more interested in. Even with the price difference.
All the best.
 
2017/10/09 12:14:59
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Whether you find it fits your workflow is really a matter of preference. However the resolution of the dial is much higher than a mouse so it can be more precise at making subtle changes to values than you can with a mouse wheel. 
As I mentioned there are other advantages like programmable task based menus that can determine what the dial is controlling and haptic feedback. With a mouse you can't really do that.
 
Also another thing that can be done is to lock the dial to control a single parameter which allows it to be used independently of the mouse. When assigned to transport control its super handy to just reach for the dial to shuttle the transport for example which is much faster than moving the mouse to grab the seek bar. In the future we may allow it to lock to any assignable parameter which can be useful for realtime control.
 
The dial is really an accessory rather than a replacement to the mouse and they recommend using it with the non dominant hand.
2017/10/09 13:47:44
AT
Keyboard, mouse, touch and now dial.  I need an app to grow a third arm.
 
;-)
2017/10/09 14:57:35
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Yes, thanks Simeon!
 
The tools we show in SONAR are two default ones (system volume, scroll) to which we add 3 custom ones, Transport, Control, Zoom.  
 
In addition users can make their own assignments using the Wheel configuration in the OS Settings.  There you can define just about any key to be sent while turning the Dial and remember that as a custom tool per application.
 
BTW, Ctrl key mod changes the zoom from horizontal to vertical.  
 
Control param changes are fine/coarse based on velocity of rotation.  You don't need to use a modifier key to get fine adjustments.  So volume increments are based on your speed. 
 
Clarification on transport mode, it follows smart grid resolution, not snap value.  It's computed based on the zoom level so the more zoomed in you are the more precise it is.  It's also not dependent on snap being on.
 
As Noel said, the Dial hardware is useful for the OS in general so it doesn't just apply to music applications.  Paired with a laptop it's much nicer to use when generally browsing/reading.  The precision of scrolling is very smooth. Microsoft sends wheel deltas about 60x more precise than a mouse wheel.  It also has a solid feel/weight.   I initially wasn't sure I'd use it but after developing for it and living with it, I definitely would.  
 
Keith
2017/10/09 18:07:59
simeon
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
The dial is really an accessory rather than a replacement to the mouse and they recommend using it with the non dominant hand.


Lightbulb! Yes, this was what I was missing.
I can see that this use case would definitely be better as I can have this on the far left side and select with the trackpad and adjust the parameters with in my case the left hand making it a little more intuitive.

Thanks Noel!
2017/10/09 21:27:43
sharke
I could definitely see me using it as a transport stopper/starter, although not sure if that would justify the cost. Now if only it fixed the problem I have when starting the transport with high latency settings, wherein the delay makes me think it's not going to happen, so I hit space again at exactly the moment the transport starts, so it stops, so then I hit space again and go through the whole rigmarole about 8 times like that before finally convincing myself to slow down and be patient 
2017/10/11 20:54:09
yapweiliang
Could 'nudge' be added as a function for the wheel/dial? Maybe Control+turn could be the very fine nudge in the same way control+turn could do fine adjustments of volume (although having tried this it does not seem to be a noticible difference)
 
Also - the fader control seems to work within main sonar window, but not when the console is in separate (undocked) window.
 
Some modifier keys might be worth considering. For example in 'transport' mode, Modifier+Turn could move to the previous/next Marker?
 
Personally - I think there is too much haptic feedback.  For example in 'transport' mode, it buzzes for each half beat (480 ticks).  COuld it have that buzz for each bar, or each Marker, but only a very slight buzz or slight click (or nothing even) for those beats?  (But I appreciate that this may be outside what Sonar has control over).
 
 
Thanks for considering
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