• Songs
  • Honest critique please. (p.2)
2013/12/11 16:21:11
jamesyoyo
Sounds pretty good. I would cut a nice fat Q around 3k on the rhythm guitars when you go into the lead to leave some space for it.
 
The guitars are too up front, robbing the drums of some of their power. Try backing off a hair and adding some room reverb, as they are sitting RIGHT HERE up front, like you recorded direct and this is what you get.
 
Add a stereo widener on the drums on a separate buss with a HPF up to about 1.4k. That should open them up a bit. Though I must say they need a little swing to them and velocity variations as it def sounds like a stock pattern.
2013/12/11 16:40:05
clintmartin
Awesome! Some things to try. Seems to be a consensus on the drums. Some interesting ideas for the guitars to. There is one compressor on this project, on the master bus. It's Pro-C with slow attack and release with 1db of gain reduction. It didn't sound like it needed any more than that to me. I have posted this song before, but I've never been happy with it. I decided to start re-mixing it first (I have 11 more to do) because it was the most troublesome for me. The drums are the Gretcsh kit in "Rock Solid" by Toontrack.
 
2013/12/11 17:04:49
rscain
Awesome playing, you got some great chops!
I'm listening at work on some small computer speakers so I cant really comment on EQ, but I do agree with others I'd like to hear more drums.
But please, not at the expense of that SWEET guitar! Keep it right out front!
2013/12/11 17:42:26
clintmartin
Thanks man!
2013/12/11 17:57:23
Danny Danzi
Hi Clint,
 
I'd like to give you my take if you don't mind? All subjective really, so feel free to disregard what I have to say here if you decide to. :) Pretty good job on this over-all. Agree with Wookie (John, your little furry ears are really starting to be tune in brother...quite a few of your critiques have been spot on in my opinion) on the kick needing a bit more beater slap. We can feel it, but the additional slap (sometimes a bit of 6k to 8k can give you just what you need.) it will be right where it needs to be in my opinion.
 
I personally like the guitars up front and direct like that (depending on the sound) because this is pretty much how guys are doing it today. It's rare you hear much room in modern guitar tones....if that's what you're going for of course. Reverb tails and "hearing the room" in rock stuff is sort of rare these days. However, it DOES still exist and there's nothing wrong with doing it on your tracks. I'd be guessing here but I'd think James might feel a bit like me. Meaning...small ambient rooms instead of verbs with tails. They really are the way to go...more along the lines of pro impulses for me. Reverbs just don't cut it for me anymore...impulses are so much more realistic and sound better when you eq them. I do agree with James that "something" on the rhythms may be a good choice....but that direct sound is pretty cool too.
 
Two ways to look at the rhythms verses the lead for me.
 
My personal preference would be to use a little more presence which would be opposite of what James told you. His way with the 3 k cut is a good one....but to *me* that would make the rhythm guitars too chocolatey and warm. They (to me) need a bit more cut so they don't sound so mid-range congested. I'd boost a little 3k to 5k to make them not sound so honky. The lead to me sounds great because it's not cutting through the mix with biting highs. I like things the opposite. Rhythm guitars that cut through, lead guitars that are warm and chocolatey without any harsh high end. So in your situation...
 
If you added a bit more sizzle to the rhythms, you could just back them down a few dB in level (maybe more because they are definitely too loud in the mix and are over-powering the drums...so get that straightened out first and then see how they sound when the lead comes in) for the solo section and then bring them back when the solo is out etc. But if you decided to have warmer guitars for rhythm guitars, what James told you would work too because you'd be warming them up even more making room for the lead guitars to take over. There's no wrong way here other than what your personal preference would be. But with warmer guitars for rhythms, you won't hear them as much if you pull out anything that would crisp them up like cutting 3k or using a tighter Q so you hear less sizzle. You've gotten all great advice so far and I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on the advice you got from anyone....I'm trying to add to what you've been told, play a little devils advocate and give you a few things that go the opposite way from what was shared. Hope that doesn't offend anyone as that was not my intention.
 
On the drums, before you try to widen them like you were advised, try to work with the drum pans within the program first. Wideners suck on certain instruments and can bring on weird artifacts and can make the drum instruments that are more panned to stereo, sound too separated from the kit. It sounds like your drums are either in mono or everything is panned near center. Try to think of your drums as being in the center of your soundstage but try not to make them exceed a 60 % pan field. Some guys are panning toms and cymbals all over the place and quite frankly it sounds like absolute dog crap to me. Art or no art, disconnection within a mix that is constant ruins it for me.
 
Drums are not supposed to be separated from the mix to where you have toms panning hard left and right...crash cymbals all the way to the sides....so go for a law that says "no drums exceed 60%" and see how you can make your kit sound. Granted, you don't need to live by that exclusively...you need to mix and pan for the song...but realistically speaking, everything else should be on the sides of the drums or in between them. This is a good way to think for your starting point.
 
That said, the drum sounds are pretty good. Just small and centered where they could branch out a bit. Snare and kick need to be centered, but you could effect them with some room inpulses or the room sound within the program so they reach out a little bit more and sort of simulate being the size of 25 left 25 right. You know...have them centered yet allow the room impulses to spread them out just a bit. If you put a spreader/widener on the whole kit, you can mess with other things that shouldn't be there...this is why I'm suggesting this method over a widener.
 
Again, not to sound like I'm picking apart James' advice, but wideners (when just thrown on without someone instructing you how and what to listen for) can totally ruin your material. Wideners work their magic when you have stereo effects going on. Anything stereo, will spread wider while things that are mono will STAY mono and can get sort of phased sounding if you use too much widening. The more widening, the more the kit can get disconnected/separated like I mentioned. So try to fix it inside the program first with pans and some room etc then if need be, try a gentle widener if you really need one. This (to me) is one of the problems with Addictive drums. They sound great, but were recorded so small, you need loads of effects to make them sound big. Too much effects and they lose their impact. They did great with the program, they just didn't record those sounds "for the use of big". Take the room effects and over-heads...and well, you're left with a tinker toy drum kit unfortunately. So though they sound great, you may be stuck with them sounding a bit smaller than other drum programs.
 
The bass sounds good to me. I can hear it and feel it. Pretty nice job here brother...you're starting to get a decent handle on this stuff. So real quick...
 
1. Adjust the rhythm guitars in the mix. Definitely too loud. Find out a good level for them. Once you do...
a. decide if you want them to have a bit more presence. If so, lower them a few dB when the lead guitar comes in so they don't wash over it.
b. decide if you want them warmer and follow James' instructions. If you do this, make sure you listen for the rhythm guitars because you may lose them a bit in the mix once you lower the Q at 3k.
Some people like a subtle amount of rhythm over a lead, others like me like to hear the rhythm at all times while the lead plays. Your choice.
 
2. Check the drum pans in the program or check to see if you may be using a mono bus or something. See if you can work the crash/hats/ride pans a bit wider and see about making the kick and snare sound a bit bigger than they are using the methods we discussed.
 
3. Bass and lead guitar sound fine to me but you'll need to adjust them level wise (maybe even eq wise) once you do the other tweaks. Hope this helps...good luck bro!
 
-Danny
2013/12/11 18:56:47
clintmartin
Thanks Danny! You guys are giving me a little bit of hope!
2013/12/11 19:15:29
jamesyoyo
Yeah! What Danny said! 
2013/12/11 21:08:17
clintmartin
Ok I turned all guitars down (except lead) 2db and tweaked EQ. I raised the drums by 1db, spread out the pan wider and added more of the room reverb level in the EZ Drummer mixer. For some reason the drums are made with the simple midi track, so I'll have to read up and convert the drums to mono out to get the kick on an individual track to add the high end. I did turn it up 1db to compensate. Thanks to all for the suggestions!
 
https://soundcloud.com/clintmartin/a-prelude-to-september-12-11
 
2013/12/11 21:45:13
Leadfoot
Hi Clint,
I listened to both mixes, and definitely hear some nice improvement in today's mix. Good job! The one nitpick I would have is the snare drum. It sounds a little better in today's mix, but to me, it still sounds thin and drum machiney. I would suggest trying a few different snare samples if your able to. If not, maybe add a little in the 500Hz area to give it a little more body. This is just my opinion, so feel free to ignore my advice. I do like the song though. You got some nice guitar playing going on in there!
2013/12/11 21:58:13
clintmartin
Thanks Leadfoot. I'm definitely going to be working more on the drums.
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