I don't think I did. I wasn't replying to you.
WST3 stated"I don't think that they do anything that can't be done in CAL, which is why I never got around to purchasing them in the past. "
 
I disagree wiith that statement, that's all. After you use a plug like FMP Human you get a feel for what's good and what's not. You save presets, etc. I have presets based on the type of feel I want. Have you tried or even looked at the plug? Download it, it's free.
I agree that whatever works for the individual is good-The op was asking about Humanizing.
I use plenty of cals, I love them.
It's all good.

First, you can randomize midi velocity using the midi velocity editor in Sonar.  Second,  I think folks tend to over use many "humanize" features on both their DAWS and their Drum software.  Good session drummers do not stray from the beat and play very close to metronomically.  They do, of course, push and drag, but this is NOT "humanizing".  You can easily edit in pushing a dragging if needed.  I never quantize at less then 97-98% and my tracks sound anything but "robotic".   Good drummers keep time.  So should your software.  Look for (very) slight variations in your velocity to sound more "human".

That may be so-But I don't over use it!
Thank You

That wasn't directed at you at all stratman70.  Just a general post to the thread.  I'm sure you don't overuse it :-)

Oh? I pretty much use very little movement. Using franks midi plug I just move vel & notes ever so slightly. I try to set it so I have the control and not make it a random, do what you will adjustment. That would certainly be over using it. I must admit I don't use it aas much as I used to. I enter my drum beats using a midi controller (I'm a guitar player) I start with the kick, then layer the snare on top, etc etc. Sometimes If I missed what I was going for, I will move things a bit with a cal or FMPlugs.
When I first became awaee of this "humanize" thing I definitely applied it too much. But after 20+ years of midi programming I have not needed it near as much. Just another tool should I need it.
 

What my post was about was folks "under" quantizing their tracks in an attempt to retain whatever "humaness" they got while playing it in.  More often they are simply preserving their "drunken drummerness".  Don't be afraid to quantize all the way up to 98 or 99 percent.  That's how close great session drummers play to the beat.  If you want to "humanize" your tracks...use (very slight) velocity differences.  HTH.

When I replied to this thread earlier, post #6, I immediately turned the term "humanize" on its head.  I understood that the OP, Handbanana, was asking about automated "humanizing" tools, but instead of talking about those, I suggested that the most straight forward way to add "humanization" to a track is to simply play it in the first place.

On a keyboard, with a GM layout like many drum modules use, low C is the kick, D and E are the snare, Gb, Ab and Bb are the hats, the notes between F1 and C2 are the Toms - etc.  It doesn't take long to figure out how to play those basic notes to start building a drum pattern, with no quantization, cleaning up in PRV as needed, and layering in more takes as needed for cymbals and extra percussion.

The Random Time CAL script can help, when programmed to only move notes by a small amount, to introduce some Note On variation when needed with a track that was put together with a grid on, or which was quantized.  But the results of that simple CAL script, or any "humanizing" tool I know of, still need some by-hand editing.

My basic point was that there are tools to be used which gives the computer some control in introducing natural timing errors, but in the end, nothing beats starting with the actual human input in the first place.

Randy B.

Unless the humans who are doing said inputing can't keep time for love nor money.  Which is often the case.

Interesting,--I've never before seen it to be controversial on a musician's Forum to suggest actually playing an instrument instead of inserting notes by mouse. 

An important caveat on my posts about starting with bonafide actual Human input in order to get so-called "humanization" in a track, I've said that doing a thorough and knowledgeable editing job in the PRV is an important follow up to the initial input.

Something very good about the MIDI files in Session Drummer, and other drum modules that have MIDI clip files, is that they aren't quantized.  If you take a look at these good, natural sounding clips you'll see that the notes are rarely, if ever, precisely on the beat.  The note entrances will in fact be pretty far off the money sometimes - but listened to as a whole, those clips are as precise as any actual drummer will play, hence their natural, human quality.  They were created by doing MIDI recordings of good drummers.

That's why quantizing to 99% is advice to be taken with extreme caution.

Randy B.

Randy this reminds me of a time when I was hired by a guy many years ago to help create backing tracks. He was a bit of a midi madman and bought all the instruments eg Guitar controller, bass, wind, keyboards (several) drums and hired great session players and we all laid it down to a click live at the same time. We just merged all the midi data.  In one take usually. (Was I selling out!!! Please dont hate me for it. I would have been cold and hungry at the time ) I was always amazed how good it sounded when we played it back.

I agree about making tracks sound good to start with. With this tribute show midi stuff I have been working on I offered to play the drums live to all the tracks for an extra $500 and they declined. It's just a case of all the midi files coming to me from someone else. I would have charged a lot more to sequence all the music. And you dont need to. Its all been done out there and very well might I add. Its a situation working on other people's programming. And to yorolpal I have fortunately not come across too much that was badly done. That must be time consuming having to fix things up.

But the humanize plugin does work well and I think combined with some light but important hand edits here and there makes for a much better sounding track. Many of the midi files I have been working with have got live played parts and they sound very good. But for some reason they have gone to town on the drum quantisation.

I have found that the best players are actually closer to the mark than we think. (Dont confuse with laying back or playing ahead. If a drummer does this shift evenly it is still close to the mark) I have done a lot of fiddling around with the timing ranges that the plugin has been moving things around. It makes quite a difference. I am a drummer with lots of playing experience and have I suppose a very sensitive ear to small changes in timing.  Its what drummers get into. I love jamming to the metronome and sometimes the clicks completely disappear. What does that mean? It means I have nailed it right at the same time. No milli seconds either way! (not many anyway )