• SONAR
  • LatencyMon: Anybody here used it? (p.3)
2017/10/07 15:55:31
bitflipper
Failures, not errors.
 
Some things you expect to fail, and prepare for when it happens. It's why you keep extra guitar strings in your case.
2017/10/07 16:41:21
abacab
bitflipper
Failures, not errors.
 
Some things you expect to fail, and prepare for when it happens. It's why you keep extra guitar strings in your case.




I gotcha big guy!  And I wasn't trying to split hairs over semantics...
 
My first real job was running mainframe computers in the 70's, back when us humans were responsible for scheduling tasks and managing what little memory we had.  That was before we taught the computers to do this for themselves, along with the dawn of virtual memory.  Those were the days! 
 
I just wanted to point out to the less techie among us, to not to freak out when LatencyMon shows red in the hard page fault category.  It's not always bad, but it would good to be advised that it may be, and it would be helpful to know the difference.  I like the advice to try adding physical RAM and/or disabling virtual memory which could rule this out as a possible cause of audio dropouts.
2017/10/09 05:07:22
Audioicon
Okay here is my LatencyMon Story:
Please do not feel sorry for me. :(

After I made this post asking about LatencyMon, I downloaded the software and ran it.
As you may have guessed, I got the Red Text:

Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks.

I am currently using RME FireFace UFX Plus and so I posted about this in their forum:
See thread here: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26073
 
Anyway, I did everything in the world and this problem would not go away:


Disabling C State or individual C State, like C1E, if you can think of it, I did it.
Nothing works, still the same issue. I even perform the changes one at the time as recommended but it did not help.


Feeling frustrated, I open the Tower and disconnected all Peripherals. I removed the Network card and the SATA Card and all extra hard drives, leaving the system almost completely bare. I also disabled all USB except for the Sonnect Allegro 3.0 USB PCI Card.

I also disabled Audio and Network cards, and also Firewire in the BIOS.
Still the same problem. Next I removed the NVidia Driver, same problem, finally, I started Windows in selective startup so that only important services are started but same problem.


Finally, I gave up and left the studio.
Later yesterday I was logged into one of my Servers running Windows Server 2012 64 R2. I decided to install LatencyMon on the server to see what will happen. In fact, I have been contemplating running my DAW on Windows Server instead of Windows 7.


Historically, all of my work is done on Servers, I do not use Windows 7 or any other Windows OS for anything, except for Music.
So when I ran LatencyMon on the Server it was Green and Suitable for Audio.
I went back to the Studio, performed a DISK PART and clean the SSD (Samsung EVO PRO), then I installed Windows Server 2012 R2 64. I tested LantecyMON and it passed.
Then I installed my DAW, the driver for the USB 3 and RME and the results were still green.
I opened up a project containing 208 Audio Tracks at 96k 64bit and 64 Buffer, this project also has hundreds of plugins.
The CPU Measured at 18% and there were no dropouts. 208 Audio Tracks at 64 buffers.
I reverted the C State change in the BIOS but kept all unneeded hardware out or disabled.


With these findings, I am just mad as hell.

It would be great if LatencyMon was a bit informative because I did everything and still had the same problem.

Three days of losing work and changing my BIOS because there is no other information available.

What a painful experience.
2017/10/09 14:05:52
abacab
Sorry you had so much trouble.  I'm sure it is frustrating.  But all computers have many variables, and LatencyMon is the best tool we have at this point for investigating DPC latency..  After that, it is a process of elimination, as you have discovered.
 
Bottom line, I guess it comes down to the specific OS and hardware configuration.  Many folks are running DAWs configured for Windows 7.  It is not all about CPU power, but can the CPU service the audio buffer without missing a sample in real-time?  If not, "something" is interfering.  As far as I am aware, there is no single tool available to explicitly identify what "it" is.
 
Watch this video (best explanation I have ever seen on the subject):
 
CPU Performance vs. Real-Time Performance in Digital Audio Workstations (DAW)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUsLLEkswzE
2017/10/09 15:12:30
yummay
What an awesome thread. Thanks very much to all of you (even if that means i'm saying thank you for unpleasant DAW experiences some of you had to go through).
 
Would also like to thank Bitflipper for his good job as a host. Always a pleasure to read his posts (even though most of the times they're making my little brain spin in confused dizziness...)
2017/10/09 15:17:48
Markubl2
yummay
Would also like to thank Bitflipper for his good job as a host. Always a pleasure to read his posts (even though most of the times they're making my little brain spin in confused dizziness...)



So I'm not the only one...
2017/10/09 15:26:23
Audioicon
hey everyone: 
I forgot to include my Specs, just in case someone else have similar issues.

Windows 7 64bit Ultimate
ASUS Sabertooth X79  (Intel Chipset)
Processor:    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3820 CPU @ 3.60GHz, 3601 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 64.0 GB
NVIDIA GForce GTX 6060TI
Sonnett Allegro: USB 3.0 PCI:
RME FireFace UFX Plus.

As indicated, I am no longer running Windows 7, I have Sonar Running in Windows Server 2012 R2.
It is the best, talk about minimal OS and it does not stand in my way.

It's a Server Software.
2017/10/09 15:36:28
yummay
I'm kind of wondering why, then, DAW builders are not offering more products based on Windows server products (besides price, of course...)
 
I mean, if by paying more for windows you can afford to pay a little less on other components of a DAW without impacting real-time performances, would'nt that be "somewhat balancing" the overall price?
2017/10/09 15:46:35
Audioicon
yummay
I'm kind of wondering why, then, DAW builders are not offering more products based on Windows server products
 


Because most not all, most users think of servers as systems only for "Industrial Work" or a room filled with big machines.

Over the last 10 years, I have not run any Windows (Consumer Software).

All of my computers run Windows Server.

For example: My primary Development Machine, runs Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Visual Studio, Video Editing Software and all tools I need for my work, on Windows Server.

By using Windows Server, I can shut down all services not needed, I can even remove all system resources from my HD not currently being used. For example: So on Windows 7 or 8, you can disable IIS, or say Bit Locker but can you remove those resources?

Importantly, given Windows Server is designed to run Mission critical and heavy intense clients, a DAW is nothing in terms of handling and you are not going to get Blue screens, these systems are design for high availability.

This is my first time running Sonar on a Server and so I did not know if it would work because not everything is supported on a Server.


2017/10/09 16:00:37
mettelus
I run Win7 Ultimate, and the biggest offender to latency is Network Auto Discovery (shut that off), close seconds are anything that auto-starts or auto-updates. Running msconfig regularly to check non-Windows processes and startup programs to strip them is advised, since many revert on updates. Running Services and setting about half of the autoruns to "manual" will solve most issues (services will still start but only when you initiate them). This advice is hardware/software load dependent by system, so no set list (but there are several threads that discuss common offenders).

On the latency monitor app, the tabs at the top give insight on what is going on and can sort by columns. The bigger offenders can be Googled to see what they belong to and then disabled (msconfig) or set to manual (Services) in many cases if non-essential. Ones unsure of, can ask here of course.

The other offenders are to disable any power saving features and core parking.

I probably missed a few, but those are the biggies. I have not looked at Win10, so not sure how this differs on that O/S.

Quick edit for the post above this: Yes, you can set to manual or even disable services in Win7. Disabling requires going back into Services to "Start" them again. About 1/3 of my Services are disabled there, but be sure you know they are non-essential before disabling them.
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