Just wondering what the concensous (spelling) is here vs programs for pop/rock/alternative arranging is and what feels to be the most realistic?

The idea really is to play all real guitars, vocals, bass (perhaps) and use BFD or DFHS and or Trilogy for bass parts. I know a lot of these add piano which is sometimes cool.

Just wondering if some had a preference over another and what there thoughts are. Have read its used a lot in pro circles, just not talked about!

thanks

I find Jammer V6 (Latest) the best. I have used it since V2 and it is indispensible when it coms to fleshing out a piece and giving me ideas for accompaniament. when I'm done I export to MIDI and import into Sonar and go from there to really tweak it.

I am a hobbiest so its just fun for me but I can see how a serious composer could use this for speeding up the arrangement process especially if you can't play everything and or don't have access to a bunch of other live musicians.

regards,

Mike V

I've used BIAB and Jammer Pro for years. I'm a guitarist and find it really useful to simply put a new song's chords into one of these and have bass, keys and brass parts arranged for me. I then import the resulting midi files into Sonar to re-arrange, add audio etc.

IMHO, Jammer's styles are much better. They just have more of a groove. The problem is that there isn't a lot of styles and they don't seem to ever update them. But to be honest, I haven't upgraded since version 4.0. So maybe there's some new stuff with version 6.

BIAB has gobs and gobs of styles. But the majority sound like a cheap Casio keyboard from the 80s (IMO). There are some decent ones (especially, in the area ofold school Jazz). But you have to hunt and hunt for them. BIAB can do lot of of other utitlitarian type things. For example, you can import a General Midi file and it will tell you all the chords.

One little trick I've found to make Jammer and BIAB tracks sound a little more hip is to mix in some Stylus RMX grooves. Often I'll give the midi notes in the Jammer/BIAB tracks the same start times as the Stylus midi notes. This can really spice up a dull GM track.

If you're going to get BIAB, get the megapack, as it has a far better selection of styles. Yes it sounds like a 10 year old kid's casio keyboard if you use a Soundblaster (aarrrghh!) and the new included Roland VSC is disappointing. But play it through a SD-20 or a software synth and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

In fact the Cakewalk TTS-1 in Sonar works pretty good with it - as good or better than the Coyote Forte Dxi which they try to sell you on their website. Sampletank as a plug-in doesn't work properly, but export the BIAB as a midi into Sonar and just change the instruments with Sampletank and you'll also get a good sound.

I think Jammer has potential, and more easily customizable, but the last time I checked, it didn't have VST/Dxi compatibility, so you'd have to again use the export midi to Sonar, or use a hard or soft synth. It definitely has a different feel and you could use both if you had the budget. Sure it ain't professional but many of us here are hobbyists and they both can produce great results that couldn't be achieved without access to a hoard of musicians.

All in all I'd vote for BIAB by a narrow margin.

A little more info on Jammer 6.
All the styles and musicians within each style are fully customisable and so give very faithful renditions of each instrument and how it might play its own part in an arrangement.

I ended up buying all the styles and there are about 3000 in all. Very complete. Download the demo and see for yourself.
regards,
Mike V.

i don't think it loses anything by not being a plug in

I have both Jammer 6 Pro and Band In A Box 2006 Megapak. Here is my assessment, Jammer is more comprehensive in creating your own styles. But Band In A Box has hundreds of more styles and they sound more real than the Jammer styles. I use Band In A Box a lot more than Jammer because of the better styles and the larger variety of styles. But I am thinking about getting the latest Musicians and Grooves for the Style Maker in Jammer, that has a lot of possibilities. Jammer is buggier than BIAB too, BIAB never does anything wierd but Jammer does wierd things frequently.

By the way I use a Yamaha SW 1000XG synth inside my computer to audition the MIDI's in Jammer and BIAB after that I use samples only in Sonar 4.0.4 to render the MIDI's to audio. Many times I change the instrumentation from guitars to pianos or strings to voices or organs. That helps in eliminating the chezzyess of the compositions.

ORIGINAL: mudgel
I ended up buying all the styles and there are about 3000 in all. Very complete.

Has Jammer added new styles in the past few years? I know they've broken out the individual parts of the previous styles for use (which is cool). But I can't figure out if they've ever created any new ones?!

It's cool that you can create your own styles from your own midi tracks.

ORIGINAL: Harvey Cedars
...Band In A Box has hundreds of more styles and they sound more real than the Jammer styles. I use Band In A Box a lot more than Jammer because of the better styles...

Funny, my take is just the opposite on who has better styles. Oh well, I guess that's what makes the world go round.

I have found Jammer highly useful as a scratch pad. I have never been satisfied with the results as is. But for fleshing out an idea or trying out alternative chord progressions or styles it is helpful.

I'll continue to use it for those purposes but otherwise I find it too limited. There are aslo features I dislike.

Although I like the idea that Band styles appear below the staff, unfortunately inserted drum styles do not. Consequently changes in drum style within a band style do not show up on the screen anywhere and are thus dificult to keep track of and or edit. Furthermore I think the program would explode in usefulness if they promoted the idea of third party styles and even released a better development kit for that purpose than the capability already built in.

Years ago using Jammer version 4, I worked out several bass and drum styles on my own to mimic habits of The Vineyard Music Group releases from Touching The Father's Heart. They helped me a lot. Sadly I lost them when by computer along with backups were destroyed.