drewfx1
 
Was another one of them something like, "If a parameter can be controlled, then it must be controlled"?
 
I recall that one from somewhere.

 
I just don't recall.  All I remember is that there was a profound truth in what she was saying - one that all computer musicians should be aware of, coming as it does from one of our most accomplished masters.

drewfx1
 
...
I don't really understand the electronic music stuff, so...
 ...
But I do know that many folks over there seem to want things like EG's and LFO's with time frames of tens of minutes or even hours. Personally I don't get it. 

The earlier stuff, specially when you listen to the early Ralf and Florian and Kluster and Cluster and Neu, and the like, feels like it is just an exercise in turning the knob at the right time, and such. I am not sure, if learning an instrument, which to me many of these were, is considered an art form, but they defined a musical style, that is still appreciated today, however, it is NOT as mechanically and medically inclined as things are today with people married to a metronome, instead of the music itself!

Hi,
 
to catch up on the history of electronic stuff, you all should also check one of the first films to ever have electronic music in it ... "Forbidden Planet", and I am not sure that you would want to discuss the knobs, since in those days there was not a keyboard, for the instrument, I believe.
 
Also important in this list, is George Harrison's experiments. It's a "nothing" album ... but it gives you the idea that one is trying to figure out what the knobs do ... and it has nothing to do with "music".

I think it's not so much not being aware of the history of electronic music, as that I suppose I don't understand the aesthetic appeal of something that endlessly repeats while evolving very slowly.
 
 
Watching the film this thread regards, it struck me that Wendy Carlos and the "east coast" school comes across less favorably than the "west coast" school and EDM. In fact, in the film it almost seems like one couldn't use a eurorack modular for anything other than EDM.
 
The DX7 and workstation keyboards are also disparaged, but buttons and presets and obtuse user interfaces are less of a problem if one is more interested in stringing notes together than focusing on timbre. Sorry Trent, but they aren't "toys" in the hands of people who have learned what to do with them.
 
IMO, there's nothing wrong with the democratization of music and untrained people making music and expressing themselves - good for them. But I would rather twist knobs and explore the capabilities of my own instrument myself than listen to others if that's all they're doing. IOW, there needs to be something unique or some sort of artistic expression or communication of ideas for me not to get quickly bored listening to others do something I can do myself.

drewfx1 ... I think it's not so much not being aware of the history of electronic music, as that I suppose I don't understand the aesthetic appeal of something that endlessly repeats while evolving very slowly. ...

 
It was a brand new instrument ... there was nothing to compare it to before, and on top of it, it was also an instrument in development.
 
Naturally, and probably because of a couple of movies, these sounds became associated with "outer space", since these sounds were all different, and strange, the aesthetic appeal to much of this stuff ended up in the hand of folks that (today) we call "geeks".
 
I've posted an example, when I gave my dad in 1978 a copy of Tomita's Snowflakes are Dancing. Now, you gotta know we have in Santa Barbara a massive record collection of over 3K LP's of classical music, and my dad knew his music! So I played it for him, and he gets on his intelectual BS mode and says ... it's very interesting and entertaining, and walked off. That was his way of saying it was crap!
 
I snapped and called him a snob and a turkey. And left the house (had my own place!) after telling him to get back to his intelectual pursuits.
 
Mom called me a week later, and said that dad was listening to the album, and he had played it again the next day, and at night during dinner told her that it was very nice and that it was a very faithful representation of the original pieces.
 
Sometimes, it just takes "ear tuning" ... and this was the same issue we had with foreign and european music in Santa Barbara ... but we didn't cave in ... and we helped many names make it big ... including Golden Earring, Focus, Gentle Giant, Supertramp, Tangerine Dream, Jean Michel Jarre, just to name a few that ended up being played by all air personnel. At any time of the day!
 

drewfx1 ... Watching the film this thread regards, it struck me that Wendy Carlos and the "east coast" school comes across less favorably than the "west coast" school and EDM. In fact, in the film it almost seems like one couldn't use a eurorack modular for anything other than EDM. ...

 
This is probably true, but I tend to discuss these in Europe/USA mode a lot more than East/West, mostly because discussing music history in America is impossible and a dead end, as the time elements when these things happened in SF/LA and NY, is completely out of whack, and impossible to discuss, however, one can use their timing in comparison to the European counterparts ... and while I will not say that one is better than the other, I will state that the Europeans had less fear in terms of playing around with it and learning to do something with the instrument ... in America, this became a dead end as no record company was going to touch these things! Record companies at the time, were still owned, for the most part in America, by the film companies, and this went back to the 1910/20's, by the way!
 
As for the part about the newer instruments, I think the point might be (will update this after I see the rest of it), that it just became a tool for folks that were replacing instruments in the orchestra/band, and that as such, the instrument would not be defined as a proper instrument. TODAY,  the synthesizer IS NOT AN INSTRUMENT in its own right anymore ... specially when Workstations and Samplers sell faster and better than synthesizers themselves. It has become a TOOL that applies any replacement it can ... and very few keyboard players are using these as an "instrument" on its own, instead of a copy/replica of another instrument! In this sense, the criticism is OK, although I do not think of it that badly ... there are some keyboard folks out there doing some neat things, although one can hardly hear them ... one of the best is Richard Barbieri with Porcupine Tree ... but he is drowned out by Steven Wilson! 

Moshkito
 there are some keyboard folks out there doing some neat things, although one can hardly hear them ... one of the best is Richard Barbieri with Porcupine Tree ... but he is drowned out by Steven Wilson! 

 
Barbieri is all about textures, not grandstanding. His choice of sounds and playing here is so subtle but perfect for the song, really beautiful.
 

jamesg1213

Moshkito
 there are some keyboard folks out there doing some neat things, although one can hardly hear them ... one of the best is Richard Barbieri with Porcupine Tree ... but he is drowned out by Steven Wilson! 

 
Barbieri is all about textures, not grandstanding. His choice of sounds and playing here is so subtle but perfect for the song, really beautiful.

hi,
There are few musicians I respect more than Richard.
 
In 1999, in the SF show, on the way from the airport, his Prophet 5 took a spill, and from noon to about 2PM, the keyboard was opened up in the back with folks trying to find the problem and find some parts, even at Radio Shack. They failed. Richard went backstage, and while 2 other bands played, he programmed and fixed 2 other synthesizers so he could have his stuff. The roadie for the band kept trashing the show, and while I had not, until that time, listeneed to the band at all, they sounded terrific and really well put together and organized very well. right in front of the promoter, I told the roadie to leave the building (I was one of the official photographers), as Steven had requested that no pictures be taken ... which I complied, but left Sean Ahearn very upset! The picture I have of Richard, in the dark, and my camera barely caught it, is, for me, one of my favorite pictures of all. There is concentration, and care, that goes beyond that ... true spirit!
 
It also shows the knowledge and understanding of his instrument.

One of the things about the film is that though they talk about it, it's hard to conceive how much smaller eurorack is than the classic Moog modulars and whatnot that people are familiar with - perhaps because you still always seem to see these huge racks of modules (due to the serious addictive nature of these things). And aside from all of the obvious reasons not to succumb to the temptation of a modular, size had always been the absolute deal breaker for me. Then I accidentally discovered how much smaller eurorack actually is.
 
Anyway, the other day I came across this picture of two recreations of the classic Moog 904A LPF that illustrates the difference nicely - original size on the left and eurorack on the right:
 

 
 
Oh, and one more thing the movie needs - more cowbell:

That module probably sounds better than this! 
 

Moshkito
one of the best is Richard Barbieri with Porcupine Tree ... but he is drowned out by Steven Wilson! 

I've got Richard's solo album, Things Buried, and I listen to that a lot...