• Coffee House
  • Should I have been copyrighting my music all this time? (p.3)
2015/12/02 14:36:18
slartabartfast
As noted previously, copyright ownership is acquired when work is recorded in any form. Copyright registration is only acquired by submitting a registration and deposit (can be done online with digital format) of the work with the copyright office. Whether you can monetize your work without a registration depends on the policy of the vendor who is distributing your work. The DMCA Takedown Notice, which is the only legally guaranteed way you can force someone else to stop distributing your work online, does require registration.  Whether you can get someone to take it off their site without using a DMCA Takedown is again, a matter of their policy. Some of the online music distributors will let you "monetize" a pirated work or request a takedown using an in house method, but some also require that you file a DMCA Takedown if the infringer appeals their removal action. In the US you cannot sue for infringement until you register, but you can register after infringement has occurred and then sue. In addition if you have registered your copyright prior to infringement and within a short time after publication (making it available to the general public as by selling CD's or putting it online), you can recover your court costs if you win an infringement action. If you wait the costs are on you. So if you want the full benefits of registration, you should certainly do it prior to or within three months of publication. 
 
https://www.venable.com/dmca-takedown--not-without-a-registration/
 
Most likely you retain copyright to any work you created in your lifetime, and will have protection for 70 years after your death. There are exceptions that may apply if you are already dead. http://www.copyright.gov/pr/pdomain.html
 
You can register a collection of songs under a single fee, if you are the author of all of the songs. Infringement of any part of the collection would constitute infringement of the registered copyright, so that would probably be sufficient protection. If you are selling songs to a publisher, it may be more convenient to register them individually but that could get expensive. 
 
http://copyright.gov/circs/circ50.pdf
 
 
2015/12/02 14:52:49
tlw
Moshkito 
There you have it ... the mis-interpreted side of copyrights



A very good description of the unhelpful post it's quoted from.
 
And no, I have no intention of getting into a pointless argument so don't bother trying.
2015/12/02 20:30:19
slartabartfast
I probably should clarify my earlier response, in that a DMCA takedown notice does not a priori require a copyright registration as a matter of law. If you read the linked article, you will see that registration is required as a practical matter because the Takedown procedure requires that you file an infringement lawsuit within two weeks in order to prevent the infringer from exercising his right to demand that the work be put up again by filing a Counter-Notification Letter, and that it would be impossible to get a copyright registered in that short period. The infringer would have to attest (subject to perjury) that he is in fact not infringing your work in his Counter-Notification, and presuming that he is not willing to lie in this regard, then he is barred from demanding the work be put up again. In most cases a properly executed Takedown notice should get the result you want even if your copyright is not registered.
 
If he is willing to lie (or honestly believes he is in the right) then you would have to find and probably pay a lawyer willing to take your case. As a practical matter, you will always bear the responsibility of paying an exorbitant amount of money to defend your copyright if it is contested. The FBI will only get involved if a major player like Microsoft or Sony Pictures is being ripped off big time, and criminal copyright infringement cases are like hen's teeth.  On the other hand, a minor infringer is not likely to take the risk that you can afford to sue him, and if the work is worth millions, it may be possible to find an attorney who will take the case on a contingency fee. What you can win in a lawsuit depends on what you can convince the court you lost as a result of the infringement, which is a difficult case to make unless you are a superstar and can produce evidence of massive copying. Another reason to register timely is that it allows you to collect statutory damages without proving any actual loss. That can amount to a significant amount, and a big stick in any negotiation or bluff. 
 
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/responding-dmca-takedown-notice-targeting-your-content
 
2015/12/03 07:02:33
gswitz
I have never done this.
2015/12/03 09:08:45
craigb
gswitz
I have never done this.



Ya, I've never copyrighted Shawn's music either. 
2015/12/05 14:04:46
Moshkito
bapu
Moshkito
Hi,
 
400 film reviews, 300 poems, etc, etc, etc ...


You should put that in your sig.



What for? You'll never read'em anyway! Specially the poems! AND, TLW will still be an arsenic and think that I'm the devil's daughter, or something! 
2015/12/06 17:11:23
FastBikerBoy
I've sort of skimmed this thread so apologies for any repetition... as noted, copyright is automatic when you create a song/piece of work. The problem is proving it should a dispute arise.
 
Should that situation ever arise (Oh how I wish..) I use http://www.protectmywork.com/ who for a small fee per year, plus a small charge per upload will "prove" your case for you. Of course I have yet to know whether it works or not but the theory seems sound.
2015/12/06 17:40:59
slartabartfast
Shawn is apparently located in the US, which unlike the UK, does have a government operated system for registration of copyright. Under 17 US Code section § 410 (c)
"In any judicial proceedings the certificate of a registration made before or within five years after first publication of the work shall constitute prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate. The evidentiary weight to be accorded the certificate of a registration made thereafter shall be within the discretion of the court." Proving that you are the creator of the work is almost always at the heart of an infringement action, and it is almost always a matter of fact to be determined. All that a registration service can provide is testimony that they received a copy of the work on a certain date from a certain person. Someone challenging your copyright can still claim that he created the work prior to your registration and that the copy you registered was infringing his copyright. Depending on his corroborating evidence and the credulity of the court he can still prevail. A notarized copy of the work would provide the same protection without the need to pay yearly fees or the fear that the service will go out of business and be unable to provide corroboration. 
 
As noted previously, for US works, registration with the Copyright Office within three months of publication additionally allows suit for statutory damages and recovery of legal fees, which an informal system does not. 
2015/12/07 09:57:39
codamedia
shawn@trustmedia.tv
I just realized with over 300 songs completed I have completely forgotten to COPYRIGHT ANY OF MY MUSIC! DOH!!!
 
so, what is my first step to protect myself...my stuff is 99% instrumkental so is that ASCAP or BMI? IDK!
 
Also, the scary thing is my music not being copyrtiten allows anyone to use it anywhere with NO BLOCKS! (on sites like youtube, facebook, etc...)
 
This will surely prevent me from monetizing...OH I SHOULD HAVE COPYRITTEN FROM THE START!

 
It looks to me like you are in a panic over nothing
 
As soon as you create something it is yours.... no "official" copywrite is needed as it is automatically implied. In the US you can go through official channels if you want, but that doesn't make it yours it just means you had it notarized as yours. That can be challenged at any time. Keeping all your old notes and rough takes goes a long way in proving it's yours if there is ever a dispute.
 
ASCAP, BMI etc... Those are performing rights organizations not copywrite. If you want to get paid for use of your music then you should register everything with one of them. Pick an organization and register... its that simple.
 
Copywrite is implied...
Registration of your works is required if you want to get paid. (but don't get too excited about that - )
2015/12/08 08:34:13
Guitarhacker
shawn@trustmedia.tv
I just realized with over 300 songs completed I have completely forgotten to COPYRIGHT ANY OF MY MUSIC! DOH!!!
 
so, what is my first step to protect myself...my stuff is 99% instrumkental so is that ASCAP or BMI? IDK!
 
Also, the scary thing is my music not being copyrtiten allows anyone to use it anywhere with NO BLOCKS! (on sites like youtube, facebook, etc...)
 
This will surely prevent me from monetizing...OH I SHOULD HAVE COPYRITTEN FROM THE START!
 
Question...some of these songs were written 25 yeras ago...Do I even own these songs anymore? DID I EVER! 
 
and Lastly, how much is this going to cost to SECURLEY and COMPLETELY copyright my 300 songs...$35.00...$40.00!!!!???
 
 
Please help I'm a copyright newb...
 
I just a musician...not a lawyer PLEASE HELP! (Before my music gets stolen I hope to GOD!!!) :(
 
 Heym, their not going to be dipping their legal pens into my selling price are they or is the price of protection just a flat monthly fee no matter how little (or much) I sell?
(breathe)
 
 
Thank You People of Twelve Gibson Roland Tones... - SLF 2000




 
I did not read the previous comments due to a lack of time....
 
Well.... let me tell you how I do it now.
 
Copyrighting 300 songs would be a formidable task and an expensive one. You could do collections under one fee.... throw 10 to 15 songs into a collection and do a collection copyright. Still going to take lots of time and money.

You could also use a third party copyright process. SONGUARD is a free service with  Master Writer software.
http://masterwriter.com/help/Songuard.html  it is NOT Library of Congress copyright. I have used this as a form of protection for songs I send to publishers and libraries. I have a bunch of tunes in the vault.

BEST OPTION:  Don't worry.... don't copyright....sleep well at night.   The simple truth is, the chance of someone stealing your tune is close to zero. If you are sending to publishers and libraries, you should be vetting them out before you send tunes. You really should trust the person or company you are dealing with. Anyone who has been in business for a long time generally is trustworthy. Blow your trust in this business and you're gone.  Stealing is not cool.  Avoid the song sharks who ask for money. All the reputable shops will not ask for a dime and will cover the costs as a part of doing business.  Any who do spend money to copyright your tunes are entitled to recover that money first before any royalties are divided and paid.
 
I send tunes to libraries that I work with and trust. The songs are completely unprotected. No copyright, and sometimes I have not even registered them with Songuard. The publisher or the library will register the copyright when the time comes. If you register it and pay the fee, they will have to re-register it anyway if they sign it. I had one publisher ask me NOT to register in my name to avoid all the paperwork of changing the registration.
 
In many cases, if the library is exclusive.... they will copyright the tune for you.
If the library is NON-exclusive (and many are) the only thing they work with is your PRO affiliation. No copyright unless you get it.
 
Non-exclusive libraries will not get a copyright. They will ask you to re-title the song with their code.  Your song ...Springtime.... would be  HRMUSIC_springtime for royalty tracking. You are free to use that tune and to place it in multiple libraries who will all re-title to ID the song for them. SO... theoretically, you could have 5 or 10  instances of "springtime" show up in your PRO registration list.... one for every library.  None of that matters.... it's how things work. The important part is when the song is used, the PRO can track the money where it's supposed to go... library and writer, and cut the check to you.
 
Exclusive libraries and publishers will obtain the copyright and only THEY can use the song. At that point, even you, as the writer, would need permission to record that song and post it or release it because you're not the copyright owner. Generally they will not re-title the song since there will only be one release of the song initially and no one else can use it without their permission. You have an agreement/contract with them that specifies that you get writer credits and usually 50% of the royalties. (writer's share) unless it's a co-write and then you split that 50% between the writers.  For max income... keep co-writers to a bare minimum and try to write by yourself for film and TV. 

PRO.... ASCAP or BMI.  Either works fine. They both do the same job and the money is about the same with either. I'm with BMI.  Sign up for writers is free.  Once registered, you get a CAE/IPI number that the publisher of library will need to know. Register all your songs with the PRO.  BUT....ask the library because many times they will register them with the PRO for you. My libraries do.  I have a number of songs being used in film & TV shows that are not copyrighted and the PRO did the BMI registration. I'm not worried that someone will steal my tunes.  DO you remember the 15 second cut of music that played behind the scene in Pawn Stars when Rick was looking at a baseball card collection?  Nope?  Neither will anyone else..... but the writer gets paid. And that cut may or may not ever be used again.  Point being .... don't worry.

If you find out that one of the publishers is placing your song in a movie, and it's going to be underscore or end credits and play in it's entirety, certainly in that instance you want to be sure that the publisher has the copyright. It's unlikely that you will own the copyright to your songs should they ever be placed in such a situation.  The publisher who lands the cut will own the copyright at that point. You will get the writers share of the royalties.
 
Back to your point and question..... I would not worry about copyrighting all 300 songs.  If you're placing your catalog with a publisher or library, speak with them about that.  You may find that they prefer them unregistered. Send a few songs for them to hear the work.... discuss the details and proceed.
 
I could expound more..... but time is pressing on me.... hope this helps you a bit.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account