• Coffee House
  • Zappa fans! Roxy: The Movie is out Oct 30th (p.3)
2015/10/23 10:39:04
Moshkito
jbow
Moshkito
batsbrew a LOT of those guitar tones, were recorded with a pignose amplifier..
Not surprised ... when everyone around him was going for the Marshal Stack and the loudness.
...and a half cocked WAH.
 
Frankly... I still like Frank's music, especially things like Peaches en Regalia but the pornographic nature of some of the lyrics bother me now that I am older and have changed a bit. Especially albums like The Mothers at the Fillmore East, June 6 1971. I am so familiar with that album I didn't look it up, I'm pretty sure I got it right, I could probably sing along with the whole thing... Mud sh sh shaarrrrk!

 
It's strange, as I get older, the hard language and such bothers me less and less. I remember one of my favorite plays, "Marat/Sade" and being that it was written by a German and then made famous in London, you can tell that the language was cleaned up, but I still feel the same, and to this day, I take a cabbage now and then and ... it's like you have to take out all your angers!
 
When it comes to FZ, the words don't bother me ... similar to my own example here ... took me longer to get over the first several thousand words of "Our Lady of Flowers" than it did Frank Zappa at any time! And Camus, Sartre and many others were fighting for it! Probably like many others would for Frank, were he not in rock music, which is considered, somewhere in the annals of the arts as just street, and uneducated music!
 
I look at it, as we must fight that thought ... and not become it. That is a well known tactic of fascist governments and controlling people's to ensure that the populace and public do what they are told, and NEVER EVER NEVER EVER be allowed to express their feelings about anything. To me, the language is a liberating factor ... and in the 50's in Portugal, they didn't like Brando, or Robarts or Kazan, either, because they were "violently" agitating people by screaming and shouting ... and to me, the late 60's was the same thing, and Frank continuing it was not a surprise, and later, I thought it was just a pastiche of itself ... a joke on itself.
 
jbow ...  I had "We're only in it for the Money" rom about the 10th grade, a good four years before I encountered any illicit substances, and I loved it. I know it word for word. Hot Rats, Chunga's Revenge, Waka Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo... oh and Just another band from LA... "rifa"... Billy The Mountain (Ethyl was a tree growing off of his shoulder)... those are my favorites.

 
This is my favorite period as well, although it is pretty obvious to me, that he concentrated on the quality of the music much more going into that time period and beyond. Although I have a hard time saying anything about the bandit later, in general, all the work he did was fine with me. You write some great things, and some not so great ... we're all like that, no?
 
jbow ... I would probably be torn over liking or not liking this movie but I'll likely watch it. Flo and Eddie... is Ansley Dunbar on this?

 
(Have to look to see if Ansley is there or not ... don't remember.)
 
You have to take a step back, to see something like this. I kinda think that some folks go into it, with today's perceptions, and ideas about the 60's and how screwed up and stupid they were and how we were so stoned that everything else was just us doing home movies like children ... but you know what, I can sit and watch it today, and I do not see someone manipulating marionettes ... I see someone saying ... something else ... and it is not clear, and I think that Frank was learning much of this at the same time, and thought that he might have something at the end, like it happens with ALL HIS MUSIC! But in film, the ego of the studios and what not, were way out there and different, and I think they made it difficult for Frank to experiment, until he found that moment he was kinda looking for.
 
This is really hard to do in film, unlike music, because the expense in time and everything else is insane ... a lot less today with graphics, and other things, but still way too time consuming for everyone involved. I don't think Frank ignored that, I kinda think that he was a bit naive going into it. Both you and I would kill for a chance to try and do something like this, and even when I mention a thing or two, even the old CHB as you well know, it's like ... impossible ... not gonna happen ... and I do not have the heart to do it, and then send a copy of it to 3 people, and 2 of them freak out on me ... I would die inside! It's your own "poem", to something that felt great to me ... but that person has no idea ... and still think I'm putting it down in some cases!
 
After that, the rest of the film is just fun and nuts to watch. It's challenging, though now we can step aside, and think that some drug movies are better done, and this was not even a drug movie, if the stories are there, but the whole thing is INSANE ... in its entirety ... that anyone would be crazy enough to think it, and then develop it, and actually do it ... somewhere along the way we have to say ... wow ... that's courageous ... even if crazy!
 
But I would rather have that "crazy" than hear the same thing over and over again! And sometimes, today's rock music is elevator music for me! Even Eno's version was better!
2015/10/23 11:05:05
craigb
Fudge! 
2015/10/23 13:56:13
sharke
Moshkito
sharke
I do get it, I was talking about that one paragraph specifically and how you seem to slip these passive aggressive swipes at other forum members in many of your posts. And even before that paragraph you were generalizing about and taking a swipe at Americans. I don't know why you can't just make an intellectual comment about art without making it sound like you think that everyone else is beneath you. It doesn't come across well.


It really is no different than your comment about me ... !
 
There is nothing beneath me, no one, except dirt and some bones and bugs ... where you and I will meet someday in the future. Any other above and below is just the silliest and poor'est joke ... and you are confusing preferences, with ideas, with a film review, and discussion.
 
It might not come across well, but then ... neither do I get these nicely wrapped in whipping cream from some of you folks ... but I still love them, and it is meant in gest, not in insult ... which you do not see.


You misunderstand me Pedro. When I say that you're passive aggressive digs at other forum members are tiring, I mean it in jest!
2015/10/23 16:08:49
bitflipper
I am passionately non-aggressive.
2015/10/23 17:29:47
jbow
bitflipper
I am passionately non-aggressive.


This ..
Sometimes I get a case of "foot in mouth" disease but what? IDK...
Give lane/take lane... non aggression. It is a good idea because guess what, there is ALWAYS someone more aggressive and personally, I don't want to challenge them, even by accident, lol.
I've found that giving he benefit of the doubt, all the time is the best way. Also, consider, when someone is rude or aggressive, you never know what they are be going through. They may just be an arse but they also may have just found out that they have been betrayed or any number of things.
 
OK, never mind... let's make the water turn black!
 
J
 
 
2015/10/23 21:36:19
craigb
I'm trying to be aggressively apathetic... 
2015/10/24 11:49:54
Moshkito
Hi,
 
So sad ... a nice movie review and comments, totally wasted by a couple of folks!
 
I wonder if they would like that about their own song!
 
Just sad!
2015/10/24 13:34:08
sharke
Moshkito
Hi,
 
So sad ... a nice movie review and comments, totally wasted by a couple of folks!
 
I wonder if they would like that about their own song!
 
Just sad!




Let me correct you. It was a nice movie review and comments spoiled by your passive aggressive swipes at other people. It's as if you feel your posts aren't complete without making some kind of reference to how you're misunderstood or how everyone else's tastes (or Americans' in general) are too simple and mainstream to appreciate the finer nuances of the higher art forms or how everyone else in the coffee house is too wrapped up in their own crap to fully understand the complexities of what you're trying to say. When anyone objects to this tone, you put your victim hat on and claim that you were just trying to be nice and how perfectly mean that person is for suggesting that your comments weren't motivated by good intentions. It's an overall air of superiority and snobbery which detracts from what could otherwise be interesting comments. Of course I say all this in the spirit of sugar and spice and everything nice 
2015/10/24 16:15:36
dmbaer
I've mentioned this before on the CW forum, but for any Frank fans who are not aware: Dick Cavett devoted a whole 30-min show to a Zappa interview.  You can find it (in three parts) on youtube.  Well worth your time, I promise.  Here's part 1:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeUe5-HcsT0
 
2015/10/28 13:12:01
Moshkito
Hi,
 
(btw, Sharke ... I cleaned up many of the articles ... I thank you for helping clear them better!)
 
The interview by Dick is OK, but ... not really that great, but it does show a different way of looking/feeling about things, that even DC has issues with ... he is playing that "audience" middle ground, and asking safe questions.
 
It was interesting for him to discuss one example, and how the media also was a part of that whole thing, but in Santa Barbara, the FCC used to pay for a few old folks to keep listening to one station and call the FCC each time they heard a 4 letter word on a song, or by a dj! You realize that even PF (Money) had a few words bleeped, to prevent complaints?
 
All in all, it is hard to get a good sense of Frank, until much later in his life, when he stopped being silly, and was less afraid to be direct and honest. My own roomie, ended up having an interview with him, but he had to do something else, to get his attention, because, in general, he would not give anyone a moment or two, and played the "star' coin as much as he could as a mechanism to not say anything. This, in a different form, is quite visible in 200 Motels ... and played up senseless. But the other side of that, is what you see in the ROXY DVD/CD which is a master conductor on top of his orchestra putting together a masterpiece. We don't go around saying that Stokowski, Bernstein, Karajhan, Leinsdorf, and the massively great conductors of the 20th century, did not know their music, and what they were doing with it ... and for this, Frank deserves some credit, EVEN if "200 Motels" comes off as an EXPERIMENT, into the eventuality of the work!
 
You know what this reminds me of? "L'Age D'Or" and "Un Chien Andalou", that ushered a whole new language in the arts, film, and literature ... and for me 200 Motels, kinda did the same thing to TV/Film and Music to a degree. Frank helped Europeans, a lot more than the artists in this country. If you peruse the "Eurock" book from those days, Frank is mentioned by just about anybody from 1968 on ... and if Frank was in an album, in some examples in Europe, it was theatrical with rock music. Nowadays, this stuff is historic over there and appreciated. Here ... unless we talk about it ... it's still just a pop song!
 
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