• Coffee House
  • All about that (electric) bass... and Carol Kaye (p.2)
2015/10/24 02:57:07
sharke
Think I'll just leave this here. 
 

2015/10/24 11:37:13
Moshkito
drewfx1
From the 1962 Gibson Catalog:
 
http://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/gibson/catalogues/1962_16.php
 

 
Yawn.



Ohhhhh I wish I had never traded in my EB-0 with the pegs going back ... it was a great instrument and it sounded fantastic. The Fender Jazz I got was never as nice. And the replicas done since of the EB-0 are totally messed up and bad!
2015/10/24 11:43:50
Moshkito
Rain
... 
Because, with all due respect, in the end, I wouldn't bet a dollar on what she or anyone on this forum or elsewhere says.
...


That's a bit harsh on my book  ... but I'm OK with it. In the end, there are always pearls amidst all the swill and litter, and we have to learn to separate those, so you can filter out the good from the otherwise not good enough. There is always something nice and good about anything anyone says ... if we are willing to look. It may not be perfect for all of us, but however small amount of gold, can always be mined.
 
Sadly, someone like her, that fought hard as heck, and put up with so many insults because she was a woman, and then ended up playing on so much music that can't even consider or have a concept of, that it makes it easier to say that her words are not worth anything.
 
True or not, history is the lie that is often agreed upon! I think I would tend to appreciate her view some, but not always think that was the only truth around ... the truth is in all of them, not just one of them!
2015/10/24 13:37:26
drewfx1
MoshkitoSadly, someone like her, that fought hard as heck, and put up with so many insults because she was a woman, and then ended up playing on so much music that can't even consider or have a concept of, that it makes it easier to say that her words are not worth anything.
 
True or not, history is the lie that is often agreed upon! I think I would tend to appreciate her view some, but not always think that was the only truth around ... the truth is in all of them, not just one of them!




I'm sorry Pedro, but demeaning "truth" and implying that questioning the credibility of someone's dubious claims is somehow sexist is just...
 
 
People today often seem to like to embrace relativism, as it allows them to elevate their own unsubstantiated opinions to the same level of people who have bothered to actually learn things, which often involves some effort. I mean it took me, I don't know, a few minutes (!) to find a published use of the term "electric bass" that pre-dates Carol's account by a number of years. And, yes, it would have been easier for me to just opine that I didn't think she invented the term. But I don't value opinions very highly when compared to objective facts, so I bothered to look it up.
 
Now mind you, the fact that she's made some at least questionable claims over the years doesn't diminish the respect due her for the incredible work she accomplished, as she was indeed at the top of heap of session bassists in LA for a long time did in fact play on countless, countless important recordings. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if she didn't drive the change from "Fender bass" to "electric bass" on studio call sheets either.
 
And I even actually have some of her "electric bass" instruction books from back in the day. 
 
 
But she is someone who has at times made claims that many have questioned the credibility of, and one might want to be aware of that when reading her accounts of things. And I don't see why being a female (who indeed worked in a male dominated profession) should get her a free pass any more than anyone else.
2015/10/24 13:52:19
bitflipper
If you'd played on as many records as she has, your memory would probably be unreliable about the exact whens and wheres, too. It was, after all, her full-time day job.
 
I could not tell you what city I was playing in 40 years ago, or even who else was in the band at the time. Groupies, however, I remember in vivid detail.
2015/10/24 14:19:50
Jim Roseberry
bitflipper
I could not tell you what city I was playing in 40 years ago, or even who else was in the band at the time. Groupies, however, I remember in vivid detail.




2015/10/24 15:26:51
bapu
I didn't read the article because it looked longer than a (gasp) Pedro post.
 
I own a Fender Electric Bass Guitar.
 
There I said it.
2015/10/24 15:43:30
craigb
I thought you had an Alembic! 
 
(Silly me, NOBODY has an Alembic!)
2015/10/24 16:47:53
Rain
drewfx1
 
 
People today often seem to like to embrace relativism, as it allows them to elevate their own unsubstantiated opinions to the same level of people who have bothered to actually learn things, which often involves some effort. I mean it took me, I don't know, a few minutes (!) to find a published use of the term "electric bass" that pre-dates Carol's account by a number of years. And, yes, it would have been easier for me to just opine that I didn't think she invented the term. But I don't value opinions very highly when compared to objective facts, so I bothered to look it up.
 




While I'm absolutely grateful that you set the record straight about that one claim of hers, the actual text, or most of it anyway, is about why "electric bass" is a more accurate term than alternatives is use. Her claim takes as to who originated it represent a rather small portion of the entire thing. 
 
I too value facts a lot more than opinions. And one could argue that it is a fact that Carol Kaye claims to have invented the term "electric bass". The text is her take on it, and it is clearly identified as such.
 
Because I value facts over opinions, I tend to be discriminating in my appreciation of material before I even read it. As such, we wouldn't want to put this in the same category as a legal document or a scientific essay - it is a personal story, posted on Facebook. I read it as such - and I think it is the first step any critical mind would take. It is bound to be filled with personal bias and inaccuracies. And all the "facts" in there have to be checked. It is implicit.
 
It is not an article of faith. No one is going to decide whether or not they need to had their kids vaccinated based on that. And every one is free to chime in and set the record straight. If you'd asked me after I read it who invented the term "electric bass" I would have told you "Carol Kaye claims she did. But let me verify."
 
I am in way over my head into serious studies about historical, theological and philological issue these days - otherwise, I too might have gotten anal about it. 
2015/10/24 18:41:20
drewfx1
Fair enough.
 
But we each bring our own context to things.
 
For me, first of all I'm not much for semantics so I'm not particularly interested in what one calls the instrument (unless it involves cussing or the words "too loud").
 
Second, as I mentioned earlier, despite what seems to be universal respect for her accomplishments Carol left a number of us with a somewhat bitter taste when she took credit for not just vague memories of LA Motown dates she might have played on, but that she created and played the very specific basslines on the hits (and not just "maybe it was just demos" or alternate "Hollywood" versions of Motown songs with added strings and gold sprinkles on top) that were a large part of James Jamerson's legacy - a guy who by the way died a tragic figure as a largely unknown and unappreciated, broken alcoholic. 
 
This will tell you all you need to know about the degree to which this debate went (and Carol does have some defenders). It's one of a couple of signed affidavits from key figures stating Jamerson played on specific bass tracks (from 1989 - showing that crazy, over the top debates did in fact occur before the modern internet). Just the fact that such a thing even exists is completely and utterly mind boggling to me:
 

 
It's a strange world we live in.
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